Do you have a source on this? First I’ve read about honey bees being invasive.
If the claim were about yellow jackets I would believe it as they are still pollenators but not as effective as honey bees. Not to mention I see way more wasps, hornets and yellow jackets than honey bees combined in a single season. I’ll see maybe one honey bee (if I’m lucky) a year in northern Ohio, but the latter are everywhere up here.
Its much more nuanced than that. Honey Bees are not native, but that does not technically make them invasive by most definitions. Oversaturation on a local ecosystem can push out native bees in some cases (maybe)…
As for the claim about them not being effective pollinators… Ive not come across anything that would make me believe that yet. In fact my understand was that its specifically because theyre good pollinators that they outcompete native species. Without additional information those two statements are incompatible.
They can spread diseases, but my understanding is that this is a result of the conditions the artificial colonies are kept in, not attributed to their inherent nature or biology, and might happen to any species that is subjected to those environments.
“Colony collapses are a good thing” does not pass the smell test in any capacity and I would disregard that opinion without some significant evidence to back it up.
“Colony collapses are a good thing” does not pass the smell test in any capacity and I would disregard that opinion without some significant evidence to back it up.
Yeah, it seems like a pretty naive zero-sum outlook on competition between native pollinators and European honeybee colonies maintained by beekeepers.
Colony collapse disorder of honeybee colonies, if caused by land use and pesticides and pollution and things like that, can be an indicator of the native pollinator population also hurting from the same causes, rather than some kind of opportunity for native species to get the upper hand in the competition.
Also, nobody is talking about beetles. Beetles are one of THE biggest pollinating insects and are suffering massive decline, but I guess people are far more concerned with bees because they’re kinda cute.
I need to address the condescension in your response. I didn’t approach this with an agenda to disprove you. I shared what I understood and acknowledged uncertainty where it existed. That’s how honest discussions work. Your assumption that this is my “very first time looking into it” and that I need to “allow my position to evolve” is patronizing and unwarranted.
On the substance:
Invasive classification: The fact that ecologists are divided on this is exactly my point about nuance. You cannot simply declare something settled because “a large number of sources” say so when the scientific community itself is debating it. The article I cited explicitly states experts disagree.
Buzz pollination: You moved the goalposts. Your original claim was that honey bees “cannot effectively pollinate native plants” full stop. Now you’re talking about buzz pollination specifically. Yes, honey bees cannot buzz pollinate. But many native North American plants do not require buzz pollination and are effectively pollinated by honey bees. Tomatoes, blueberries, and cranberries need buzz pollination. Sunflowers, asters, goldenrod, and countless other natives do not. Your broad claim was incorrect.
Disease transmission: You completely missed my point. If the problem is industrial beekeeping practices creating disease reservoirs, then those practices are the problem. Colony collapse does not discriminate between well-managed hives and factory farm operations. It kills bees indiscriminately. Celebrating it as a solution is like celebrating a disease outbreak in factory farms instead of advocating for better practices.
Colony collapse as good: This is where your argument fully breaks down. Colony collapse disorder causes immense suffering to the bees themselves. If your concern is ecological harm, then advocate for reduced hive density, better management, or restrictions on commercial beekeeping in sensitive areas (which already exist in many places, as you noted with the USDA guidance). Celebrating the mass death of millions of bees as “a good thing” because it might inconvenience their owners is callous and doesn’t actually address the ecological concerns you claim to care about. Beekeepers respond to colony collapse by importing more bees and intensifying their practices, not by scaling back operations.
Your comparison to dairy farms going out of business is false equivalence. A business closing is a policy outcome. Colony collapse is an ecological disaster that happens TO the bees, causes them suffering, and does not reduce the overall population of managed hives because beekeepers simply replace losses.
I am genuinely interested in native pollinator conservation. But your position requires celebrating bee suffering as ecologically beneficial when the evidence does not support that conclusion, and better solutions exist.
Thanks for the informative link! Didn’t know they were not native to NA at all. The message here has always been “take care of the honey bees!” and that slogan now has a different meaning to me.
Maybe try stepping outside of “the capitalist world we live in” and instead help those asking for help, instead of telling them the equivalent of “good luck, find out for yourself”. If you have knowledge worth sharing, then I suggest you share it when others ask.
Someone else did respond to me with a link which was informative and gave me the proper information I requested, which was very eye opening to your original statement.
I would do further reading on this, and not just rely on the “hot take” from one progressive youtuber. It’s a lot more nuanced and complicated than this.
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Do you have a source on this? First I’ve read about honey bees being invasive.
If the claim were about yellow jackets I would believe it as they are still pollenators but not as effective as honey bees. Not to mention I see way more wasps, hornets and yellow jackets than honey bees combined in a single season. I’ll see maybe one honey bee (if I’m lucky) a year in northern Ohio, but the latter are everywhere up here.
Its much more nuanced than that. Honey Bees are not native, but that does not technically make them invasive by most definitions. Oversaturation on a local ecosystem can push out native bees in some cases (maybe)…
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/native-north-american-bees-mostly-seem-untroubled-by-invasive-honey-bees-391892
As for the claim about them not being effective pollinators… Ive not come across anything that would make me believe that yet. In fact my understand was that its specifically because theyre good pollinators that they outcompete native species. Without additional information those two statements are incompatible.
They can spread diseases, but my understanding is that this is a result of the conditions the artificial colonies are kept in, not attributed to their inherent nature or biology, and might happen to any species that is subjected to those environments.
“Colony collapses are a good thing” does not pass the smell test in any capacity and I would disregard that opinion without some significant evidence to back it up.
Yeah, it seems like a pretty naive zero-sum outlook on competition between native pollinators and European honeybee colonies maintained by beekeepers.
Colony collapse disorder of honeybee colonies, if caused by land use and pesticides and pollution and things like that, can be an indicator of the native pollinator population also hurting from the same causes, rather than some kind of opportunity for native species to get the upper hand in the competition.
Also, nobody is talking about beetles. Beetles are one of THE biggest pollinating insects and are suffering massive decline, but I guess people are far more concerned with bees because they’re kinda cute.
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I need to address the condescension in your response. I didn’t approach this with an agenda to disprove you. I shared what I understood and acknowledged uncertainty where it existed. That’s how honest discussions work. Your assumption that this is my “very first time looking into it” and that I need to “allow my position to evolve” is patronizing and unwarranted.
On the substance: Invasive classification: The fact that ecologists are divided on this is exactly my point about nuance. You cannot simply declare something settled because “a large number of sources” say so when the scientific community itself is debating it. The article I cited explicitly states experts disagree.
Buzz pollination: You moved the goalposts. Your original claim was that honey bees “cannot effectively pollinate native plants” full stop. Now you’re talking about buzz pollination specifically. Yes, honey bees cannot buzz pollinate. But many native North American plants do not require buzz pollination and are effectively pollinated by honey bees. Tomatoes, blueberries, and cranberries need buzz pollination. Sunflowers, asters, goldenrod, and countless other natives do not. Your broad claim was incorrect.
Disease transmission: You completely missed my point. If the problem is industrial beekeeping practices creating disease reservoirs, then those practices are the problem. Colony collapse does not discriminate between well-managed hives and factory farm operations. It kills bees indiscriminately. Celebrating it as a solution is like celebrating a disease outbreak in factory farms instead of advocating for better practices.
Colony collapse as good: This is where your argument fully breaks down. Colony collapse disorder causes immense suffering to the bees themselves. If your concern is ecological harm, then advocate for reduced hive density, better management, or restrictions on commercial beekeeping in sensitive areas (which already exist in many places, as you noted with the USDA guidance). Celebrating the mass death of millions of bees as “a good thing” because it might inconvenience their owners is callous and doesn’t actually address the ecological concerns you claim to care about. Beekeepers respond to colony collapse by importing more bees and intensifying their practices, not by scaling back operations. Your comparison to dairy farms going out of business is false equivalence. A business closing is a policy outcome. Colony collapse is an ecological disaster that happens TO the bees, causes them suffering, and does not reduce the overall population of managed hives because beekeepers simply replace losses.
I am genuinely interested in native pollinator conservation. But your position requires celebrating bee suffering as ecologically beneficial when the evidence does not support that conclusion, and better solutions exist.
Thanks for the informative link! Didn’t know they were not native to NA at all. The message here has always been “take care of the honey bees!” and that slogan now has a different meaning to me.
This guy is a giant wasp, don’t listen to him. He’s just trying to distract you so he can drink all the soda in your house
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Hmmm, make claim on internet. Don’t back up claim. Insisit I do my own research. Pretty Trolly take stranger.
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Maybe try stepping outside of “the capitalist world we live in” and instead help those asking for help, instead of telling them the equivalent of “good luck, find out for yourself”. If you have knowledge worth sharing, then I suggest you share it when others ask.
Someone else did respond to me with a link which was informative and gave me the proper information I requested, which was very eye opening to your original statement.
I would do further reading on this, and not just rely on the “hot take” from one progressive youtuber. It’s a lot more nuanced and complicated than this.