why all this fuss about lossless audio? Spotify premium is literally indistinguishable from lossless audio for 99.9% of the population and songs (because not all songs will be lossless or are even mastered in a way that makes a difference). granted if…
you have the right hardware
you have the ear trained to hear compression
you picked a song that has audible compression artifacts however small they may be
you are in a quiet room
you are actively looking for compression artifacts
you may hear a difference. if you think otherwise, then do a lossy vs lossless blind test and be impressed that you actually cannot hear the difference most of the time (especially without actively looking for the artifacts)
Lossy audio compression algorithms work based on psychoacoustic effects. The average human ear will not detect all the “parts” in a lossless signal - there are things you can drop from the signal because:
Human ears are most sensitive around the frequency of human speech, but less at others
If there is a loud signal, a much more silent one very close will be masked if it occurs within a couple of milliseconds around the loud one
There are other more subtle aspects of the human ear you can use to detect signals we just won’t notice.
So in order to determine exactly which parts of an audio signal could be dropped because we don’t hear them anyway, they measured a couple of thousand people’s listening profiles.
And they used that “average human profile” to create their algorithm.
This, of course, has a consequence which most people, including you apparently, do not understand:
The better your personal “ear” matches the average psychoacoustic model used by lossy algorithms, the better the signal will sound to you.
In other words, older people, or people with certain deficiencies in their hearing capabilities, will need higher bitrates not to notice the difference. In the 90s, I used to be happy with 192 kbps CBR MP3. But now, being an old fuck, boy, can I hear the difference.
Ironically, I can detect the difference not because my ears are “trained” or “better”, I can detect it because my ears are worse than yours!
So the whole bottom line is this: While it may be true that you, personally, do not require lossless to enjoy music to the fullest, other people do. Claiming that lossless isn’t needed by 99.9% of the population is horseshit and only demonstrates that you have no clue about how lossy compression works in the first place.
The fuss is that every time you transcode to a new format you accumulatively lose quality.
So for example if you have an 320kbps mp3, but then that takes too much space so you transcode it to 192 mp3, but then you discover the opus codec is more efficient so you transcode it again, but then you want to make a fan video of the same song, so your video player transcoded it again into video friendly aac.
The quality on your final video is going contain the faults of all the files upstream.
Meanwhile if you edit the video from a lossless source, it will only get encoded once.
So it doesn’t matter for streaming, but it matters if you want to download and convert to other formats.
This is a great point, currently I have tens of thousands of mp3’s that I wish I could somehow, impossibly upscale to a better codec, but those rare tracks I have in the low VBR mp3 range will never be revived.
I compress everything with Opus 192kbp/s (way over the human ear). I get the quality of FLAC with the size of an MP4. Also Spotify sucks with their AI slop.
I agree that the vast majority of people will not be able to distinguish one from another, but the company is the biggest streaming service and they’re behind their competitors in this aspect. They also have been promising this for years and not delivering.
I don’t get it either. I’m pretty sure it’s just marketing bullshit and many people are falling for it. Same with bluetooth headphones and codecs. I wouldn’t be surprised if the difference between LDAC and AAC on an average bluetooth headset wouldn’t even be scientifically measurable.
why all this fuss about lossless audio? Spotify premium is literally indistinguishable from lossless audio for 99.9% of the population and songs (because not all songs will be lossless or are even mastered in a way that makes a difference). granted if…
you may hear a difference. if you think otherwise, then do a lossy vs lossless blind test and be impressed that you actually cannot hear the difference most of the time (especially without actively looking for the artifacts)
Lossy audio compression algorithms work based on psychoacoustic effects. The average human ear will not detect all the “parts” in a lossless signal - there are things you can drop from the signal because:
So in order to determine exactly which parts of an audio signal could be dropped because we don’t hear them anyway, they measured a couple of thousand people’s listening profiles.
And they used that “average human profile” to create their algorithm.
This, of course, has a consequence which most people, including you apparently, do not understand:
The better your personal “ear” matches the average psychoacoustic model used by lossy algorithms, the better the signal will sound to you.
In other words, older people, or people with certain deficiencies in their hearing capabilities, will need higher bitrates not to notice the difference. In the 90s, I used to be happy with 192 kbps CBR MP3. But now, being an old fuck, boy, can I hear the difference.
Ironically, I can detect the difference not because my ears are “trained” or “better”, I can detect it because my ears are worse than yours!
So the whole bottom line is this: While it may be true that you, personally, do not require lossless to enjoy music to the fullest, other people do. Claiming that lossless isn’t needed by 99.9% of the population is horseshit and only demonstrates that you have no clue about how lossy compression works in the first place.
The fuss is that every time you transcode to a new format you accumulatively lose quality.
So for example if you have an 320kbps mp3, but then that takes too much space so you transcode it to 192 mp3, but then you discover the opus codec is more efficient so you transcode it again, but then you want to make a fan video of the same song, so your video player transcoded it again into video friendly aac.
The quality on your final video is going contain the faults of all the files upstream.
Meanwhile if you edit the video from a lossless source, it will only get encoded once.
So it doesn’t matter for streaming, but it matters if you want to download and convert to other formats.
This is a great point, currently I have tens of thousands of mp3’s that I wish I could somehow, impossibly upscale to a better codec, but those rare tracks I have in the low VBR mp3 range will never be revived.
Are you a musician? You can hear whats missing if you know what to listen for.
You don’t need a trained ear for lossless audio to be different for lossy audio.
do a blind test between ogg 320kbps which Spotify premium uses and FLAC and tell me your score then
my point is, if you’re not working on that audio, there is no audible difference between two
Depends on the song as well.
Are we comparing a rip of a 1990’s album to a remaster, or a vinyl rip?
I guess if you really want to find a baseline, pick a band that’s known for audio quality and pick an album with the best.
I compress everything with Opus 192kbp/s (way over the human ear). I get the quality of FLAC with the size of an MP4. Also Spotify sucks with their AI slop.
I agree that the vast majority of people will not be able to distinguish one from another, but the company is the biggest streaming service and they’re behind their competitors in this aspect. They also have been promising this for years and not delivering.
everyone listening to audio on a modern phone will be using bluetooth anyway. lossless is jist a money grab.
even my local flac files are indistinguishable from standard quality streamed media over bluetooth
don’t say it too loud the nerds on here will be angry at you (you’re already getting down voted for no reason)
I don’t get it either. I’m pretty sure it’s just marketing bullshit and many people are falling for it. Same with bluetooth headphones and codecs. I wouldn’t be surprised if the difference between LDAC and AAC on an average bluetooth headset wouldn’t even be scientifically measurable.