That’s our choice, personhood is a social construct. Don’t be a realist, take personal responsibility for your worldview. Choose whether animals are people.
They’ve been asserting their personhood for a long time. Check out !transspecies@lemmy.blahaj.zone. I’m not an animal, but I’m not a human either, and I have had close relationships with many therians. But even if therians didn’t exist, you should still choose to be kind. This slaver mentality of expecting marginalised groups to stand up for themselves by your standards is a catch-22. You’re in control of your own standards. You can’t make everyone else responsible for your own choices.
It’s also what Isaac Bashevis Singer, Jewish Holocaust survivor did.
“What do they know-all these scholars, all these philosophers, all the leaders of the world - about such as you? They have convinced themselves that man, the worst transgressor of all the species, is the crown of creation. All other creatures were created merely to provide him with food, pelts, to be tormented, exterminated. In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka.”
A Holocaust survivor is calling people like you Nazis. Stop and think. Take responsibility. Stop reacting, stop defending, and use your head to tell right from wrong.
Treating people like animals is only bad because you’re arbitrarily presupposing that animals are worthy of lesser treatment. You do understand that, right?
And like, what’s your well-reasoned moral philosophical justification as to why it’s okay to kill sentient beings that don’t want to be killed, and why does it distinguish between humans and other animals???
What a solipsistic take. By the same token, there’s no way that you can prove to me that you understand personal mortality. If, for the sake of argument, I were to point a loaded firearm at you and you were to attack me, attempt to flee, beg for your life, whatever, there’s no way you could prove to me that your actions are motivated by a subjective will to not die: for all I know you might just be acting very convincingly like someone who understands mortality without actually having any interiority whatsoever.
However, there is social utility in assuming that others are capable of understanding abstract concepts when they perform actions in accordance with such an understanding. And from the fact that most animals will try to avoid things that they can reasonably understand will cause them death (natural predators, environmental hazards, anything that has caused them injury), we can likewise extrapolate that they don’t want to die.
In the sense that they both have a drive for self-preservation that I believe ought to be respected where no immediate threat to wellbeing exists, yes actually, I would treat a whale like a lion and simply not murder either of them for food. In fact, in my everyday life, I do treat them exactly the same because I have exactly zero interactions with either.
I’m really glad I made a PieFed instance, because it means I get to ban people like you who obstinately push realist authoritarian points that were rebutted several messages ago, like you’re on some kind of script for exhausting the enemy. MULTIVERSE’s rule about limited authoritarianism is something I’m really proud of in how it specifically bans these kinds of tactics which are optimised to exhaust and/or intimidate the left wing opposition.
I mean I know you by reputation, I’ve seen you do this kind of thing before. But I still gave you the benefit of the doubt today, and it’s making this tankie ban feel just so much more satisfying.
That’s our choice, personhood is a social construct. Don’t be a realist, take personal responsibility for your worldview. Choose whether animals are people.
when nonhuman animals assert their personhood, that will change things.
They’ve been asserting their personhood for a long time. Check out !transspecies@lemmy.blahaj.zone. I’m not an animal, but I’m not a human either, and I have had close relationships with many therians. But even if therians didn’t exist, you should still choose to be kind. This slaver mentality of expecting marginalised groups to stand up for themselves by your standards is a catch-22. You’re in control of your own standards. You can’t make everyone else responsible for your own choices.
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do
It’s also what Isaac Bashevis Singer, Jewish Holocaust survivor did.
A Holocaust survivor is calling people like you Nazis. Stop and think. Take responsibility. Stop reacting, stop defending, and use your head to tell right from wrong.
the Holocaust was bad, in part, because it treated people like animals. his opinion isn’t well reasoned moral philosophy.
Treating people like animals is only bad because you’re arbitrarily presupposing that animals are worthy of lesser treatment. You do understand that, right?
And like, what’s your well-reasoned moral philosophical justification as to why it’s okay to kill sentient beings that don’t want to be killed, and why does it distinguish between humans and other animals???
there isn’t proof nonhuman animals understand personal mortality.
What a solipsistic take. By the same token, there’s no way that you can prove to me that you understand personal mortality. If, for the sake of argument, I were to point a loaded firearm at you and you were to attack me, attempt to flee, beg for your life, whatever, there’s no way you could prove to me that your actions are motivated by a subjective will to not die: for all I know you might just be acting very convincingly like someone who understands mortality without actually having any interiority whatsoever.
However, there is social utility in assuming that others are capable of understanding abstract concepts when they perform actions in accordance with such an understanding. And from the fact that most animals will try to avoid things that they can reasonably understand will cause them death (natural predators, environmental hazards, anything that has caused them injury), we can likewise extrapolate that they don’t want to die.
treating different things differently is necessary for right action. you wouldn’t treat a whale like a lion or vice versa.
I didn’t say anything about worthiness or lesser treatment.
In the sense that they both have a drive for self-preservation that I believe ought to be respected where no immediate threat to wellbeing exists, yes actually, I would treat a whale like a lion and simply not murder either of them for food. In fact, in my everyday life, I do treat them exactly the same because I have exactly zero interactions with either.
I’m really glad I made a PieFed instance, because it means I get to ban people like you who obstinately push realist authoritarian points that were rebutted several messages ago, like you’re on some kind of script for exhausting the enemy. MULTIVERSE’s rule about limited authoritarianism is something I’m really proud of in how it specifically bans these kinds of tactics which are optimised to exhaust and/or intimidate the left wing opposition.
I mean I know you by reputation, I’ve seen you do this kind of thing before. But I still gave you the benefit of the doubt today, and it’s making this tankie ban feel just so much more satisfying.
explaining that people deserve more respect than nonpersons isn’t right wing, just as it’s antithesis isn’t left wing.
nothing was debunked
I’m right, and I’m not a tankie, but I hope you enjoy your echo chamber