Yes, many things are considered memes, with our modern vernacular, looking backward, anachronistically.
The concept of domesticating dogs, agriculture, wearing shoes, having a language, writing that language down…
Those are all memes.
Common and historically persistent symbols and artistc motifs…
All memes.
But, the history of how a particular meme propogates, that is its own thing.
And the idea of the particular word ‘meme’… its etymological history, how it became to have the meaning and usage that it currently does, to describe a kind of replicated packet of information of some kind… that is also its own thing.
And then it is another thing to describe how the word has now morphed from its original academic meaning, to its modern meaning as specifically a kind of replicated image that is some kind of a joke.
Do you see the nuances here?
The word ‘meme’ … is itself a kind of meme.
If you time travelled back to 1974 and described ‘Kilroy Was Here’ as a meme… no one would have any idea what you meant with the word ‘meme’, because it had not been invented yet.
Ok, but you are saying ‘Kilroy was here’ was an ‘early’ meme dating back to the 1940s. By the ‘thing described by a term can predate the term’ logically, memes have always been a thing and you won’t be able to cite an ‘early’ meme credibly.
The guy was agreeing that 'sure, that was a meme, but so too were many many things throughout history, basically life is a constant barrage of ‘memes’ in that sense.
Yes, many things are considered memes, with our modern vernacular, looking backward, anachronistically.
The concept of domesticating dogs, agriculture, wearing shoes, having a language, writing that language down…
Those are all memes.
Common and historically persistent symbols and artistc motifs…
All memes.
But, the history of how a particular meme propogates, that is its own thing.
And the idea of the particular word ‘meme’… its etymological history, how it became to have the meaning and usage that it currently does, to describe a kind of replicated packet of information of some kind… that is also its own thing.
And then it is another thing to describe how the word has now morphed from its original academic meaning, to its modern meaning as specifically a kind of replicated image that is some kind of a joke.
Do you see the nuances here?
The word ‘meme’ … is itself a kind of meme.
If you time travelled back to 1974 and described ‘Kilroy Was Here’ as a meme… no one would have any idea what you meant with the word ‘meme’, because it had not been invented yet.
Just because they didn’t have a word for it, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a thing.
Ok, so, no, you don’t care for the nuance or distinctions I was making, got it.
Ok, but you are saying ‘Kilroy was here’ was an ‘early’ meme dating back to the 1940s. By the ‘thing described by a term can predate the term’ logically, memes have always been a thing and you won’t be able to cite an ‘early’ meme credibly.
The guy was agreeing that 'sure, that was a meme, but so too were many many things throughout history, basically life is a constant barrage of ‘memes’ in that sense.