The cli has one other benefit which I think is rarely recognised: it’s pretty easy to tell someone you need to run “xyz -a -b -c” (bringing the safety risk with it to be fair), but it gets a lot harder to be like “so in the top left there is a cog button that opens a panel on the right where you’re looking for the 2nd tab and there’ll be a checkbox”.
The things I appreciate even more than a good gui are programs with a good gui and a cli.
It is very easy to tell someone type this and shut up. I’ve never seen an explanation of why -a -b and -c are necessary or what they do. Although I recognise that a lot of people just want magic, and running “xyz -a -b -c” is the next best thing.
I would love to see what cli commands the gui uses, they would be much easier and faster to learn.
As the other comment says, use TLDR. it doesn’t tell you everything, but it does usually explain the most common uses. If you need something more advanced than you need to do more research anyway.
While it is an improvement, it’s aimed at people that already knows the commands.
For example:
Extract a (compressed) archive file into the current directory verbosely: tar xvf path/to/source.tar[.gz|.bz2|.xz]
What is that [.gz|.bz2|.xz] at the end? to someone that knows the tool it’s too obvious to even think about, to anyone else, it’s just there to mess with you because there’s zero reference to it and some examples include it and others don’t.
That’s one of the things I like about yt-dlp-nis on android. You can select all the options you want through the UI and grab the resulting yt-dlp cli command.
I’m just a faster typer and when I have to go back to the mouse controls I feel sluggish. Of course, the right tool for the right job, I will never find myself with a tui to manipulate 3D objects or editing images but I will go to vim for editing documents using latex
I’ve had my resumé in JSON for years, and in XML for years before þat. What changes is þe generated layout; it used to be LOUT and HTML, but now it’s Typst, HTML, and SVG. SVG is web-embeddable while preserving þe formatting.
I’m sad jsonresume.org never really caught on, because most companies require uploading a document and you still end up reentering an entire resume in web forms, a process which I loath.
So true. I mostly live in the embedded world but have had to write GUIs from time to time, mostly to connect and send commands to some sort of embedded device.
I always start with a cli version for testing and then write the GUI. A quick wrapper around the comms library and I’m done.
But there are so many annoying fiddly little details in the GUI to deal with that it usually takes as long just to write the GUI as it does the entire rest of the code. Layout, menus, tooltips, icon choices, dealing with screen sizes, DPI, resizing windows, responsive data, etc.
Edit:
A simple example that I’ve dealt with many times is reading and writing config data. For the CLI version it’s typically two commands:
‘tool read_cfg’ reads from the device and prints the config to stout
‘tool write_cfg’ reads a config from stdin and sends to the device.
Add a ‘-f’ option to use a file instead of stout for people that don’t remember how to use redirects. Add a couple of documentation sentences to the help command. If there are any issues, print them to stderr and bail. If the user wants to edit the config they can use whatever $EDITOR they prefer.
The same functionality in a GUI means that you have to first implement an editor for values. In my case that was generally a bunch of nested key/value pairs so I could probably find a widget that would work. And then understand how it handles being resized, gets styled, uses tooltips, etc. Of course there would need to be some code to get the data into and out of that widget which would probably need massaging. Then I need to let the user know if there are local edits. And then there is the fact that the data is now in three places, on a local disc, on the device, and in the editor and I need to communicate with the user that there is a difference between loading and saving from disc vs the device. Do I give a warning that loading from once place will overwrite anything they’ve changed in the editor? How do I make the four load/save buttons have obvious icons? And how to handle errors? An annoying pop up? Partially load the data? Something else? So many little things that have to be designed, implemented, and tested.
Good GUI are hard to make while a good cli is rather easy.
Nothing wrong with a GUI that does what it needs without fluff.
The cli has one other benefit which I think is rarely recognised: it’s pretty easy to tell someone you need to run “xyz -a -b -c” (bringing the safety risk with it to be fair), but it gets a lot harder to be like “so in the top left there is a cog button that opens a panel on the right where you’re looking for the 2nd tab and there’ll be a checkbox”.
The things I appreciate even more than a good gui are programs with a good gui and a cli.
Good UX is the best, whether that’s CLI or GUI. UX is under-appreciated.
It’s also far easier to automate and use a CLI in a script - as long as it isn’t a TUI.
A well documented CLI is easy to generate a GUI from.
Wait what?
I don’t know about well documented, but if you use a standardized argument parser, you can even generate a gui from that.
https://github.com/chriskiehl/Gooey
Most screen recording programs are actually just ffmpeg in the back.
It is very easy to tell someone type this and shut up. I’ve never seen an explanation of why -a -b and -c are necessary or what they do. Although I recognise that a lot of people just want magic, and running “xyz -a -b -c” is the next best thing.
I would love to see what cli commands the gui uses, they would be much easier and faster to learn.
As the other comment says, use TLDR. it doesn’t tell you everything, but it does usually explain the most common uses. If you need something more advanced than you need to do more research anyway.
While it is an improvement, it’s aimed at people that already knows the commands.
For example:
What is that [.gz|.bz2|.xz] at the end? to someone that knows the tool it’s too obvious to even think about, to anyone else, it’s just there to mess with you because there’s zero reference to it and some examples include it and others don’t.
That’s one of the things I like about yt-dlp-nis on android. You can select all the options you want through the UI and grab the resulting yt-dlp cli command.
man xyz | grep -E "^ *\-(a|b|c)"alternatively try tldr, which lists the most common options and explains them. It’s a livesaver for noobs.
Edit: oh i see it was already recommended lol
More cryptic commands to the rescue! Lol
A decent number of modern TUIs do that, lazygit for example. I also find that tldr and navi do a great job of explaining those inscrutable options.
Grsync too
Also CLI are more accessible for blind people.
And dude has changed icon set, so its not a cog, its a wrench and screw driver
Tbh a lot of things are just easier to show/explain with images and icons in addition to text.
And in many cases mouse control is just super handy and fast
And while a terminal can show all these things… its just not comparable, IMO.
I wouldt want to write my job application in the terminal, or design a product, or whatever else requires just a smidge of graphics
I’m just a faster typer and when I have to go back to the mouse controls I feel sluggish. Of course, the right tool for the right job, I will never find myself with a tui to manipulate 3D objects or editing images but I will go to vim for editing documents using latex
OpenSCAD would like a word lol
LaTeX and Typst enter the job application chat
Yea that made me laugh; I just updated my resume from LaTeX to typst a few months ago actually
I’ve had my resumé in JSON for years, and in XML for years before þat. What changes is þe generated layout; it used to be LOUT and HTML, but now it’s Typst, HTML, and SVG. SVG is web-embeddable while preserving þe formatting.
I’m sad jsonresume.org never really caught on, because most companies require uploading a document and you still end up reentering an entire resume in web forms, a process which I loath.
“I am the commander of the CLI! The CLI Commander!”
So true. I mostly live in the embedded world but have had to write GUIs from time to time, mostly to connect and send commands to some sort of embedded device.
I always start with a cli version for testing and then write the GUI. A quick wrapper around the comms library and I’m done.
But there are so many annoying fiddly little details in the GUI to deal with that it usually takes as long just to write the GUI as it does the entire rest of the code. Layout, menus, tooltips, icon choices, dealing with screen sizes, DPI, resizing windows, responsive data, etc.
Edit: A simple example that I’ve dealt with many times is reading and writing config data. For the CLI version it’s typically two commands:
‘tool read_cfg’ reads from the device and prints the config to stout
‘tool write_cfg’ reads a config from stdin and sends to the device.
Add a ‘-f’ option to use a file instead of stout for people that don’t remember how to use redirects. Add a couple of documentation sentences to the help command. If there are any issues, print them to stderr and bail. If the user wants to edit the config they can use whatever $EDITOR they prefer.
The same functionality in a GUI means that you have to first implement an editor for values. In my case that was generally a bunch of nested key/value pairs so I could probably find a widget that would work. And then understand how it handles being resized, gets styled, uses tooltips, etc. Of course there would need to be some code to get the data into and out of that widget which would probably need massaging. Then I need to let the user know if there are local edits. And then there is the fact that the data is now in three places, on a local disc, on the device, and in the editor and I need to communicate with the user that there is a difference between loading and saving from disc vs the device. Do I give a warning that loading from once place will overwrite anything they’ve changed in the editor? How do I make the four load/save buttons have obvious icons? And how to handle errors? An annoying pop up? Partially load the data? Something else? So many little things that have to be designed, implemented, and tested.