Harris chose to lose the most winnable election in history because Democrats know they can punish voters for being disloyal simply by allowing Republicans to win. If you demand too much from Democrats they will throw the election. It’s essentially a hostage situation, you must give unconditional support to the Good Cop or the Bad Cop will beat you to death. You don’t want the Bad Cop, do you?
If we don’t abolish this system we’re all going to die.
Only a moron would have looked at the two options we had and not picked Harris.
Was she a good candidate? Actually yes if you look at her Senate voting history. She was closer to Sanders than any other senator. She also, as VP, supported investigating Israel so they could bypass the law requiring us to give support.
Did she run a good campaign? Absolutely not. But, she basically had no time to actually run one. She needed money, fast, so she softened her stance on some things to secure it.
Was it a bad move? Yes. Was it a bad enough move to let Donald “I’m going to be a dictator on day one and you’ll never have to vote again” Trump win? Absolutely not.
Do you think you’re going to be able to reason with someone who literally just said that the Democrats threw the election on purpose because online leftists “demanded too much”?
If they do, like they love to pretend to, then they are part of the people responsible for all the horrible things Trump is doing. If they’re not, then why should anyone care?
What’s your alternative that isn’t completely insane, “The Revolution will come” levels stupid? What a politician actually supports (instead of what they say) is the CLOSEST we will ever get objective proof of a candidates position.
We’re also a country made of idiots who as soon as we see somebody telling us shit we don’t want to hear we throw a tantrum and lose all ability to rationalize.
The DNC is an evil organization that is propping up a genocide and is mostly responsible to the whims of corporations. But that is because the DNC is essentially controlled by a group of republicans.
Harris ran a shit campaign because Joe Biden should have retired earlier and there should have been a big primary. This goes back to the 2020 election where Biden was basically propped up by the DNC and it turns out they propped up a senile old man with cancer.
Like any reasonable democrat running for office now should be saying we should put more democrats voters into the DNC and push out lobbyists.
OK, but she didn’t have time to run a better campaign because a lot of influential people (Harris included) in the Democratic party decided it was better to hide Biden’s deteriorating condition than confront it.
Does this seem like the actions of a party that genuinely considers Trump an existential threat?
They (the Biden admin) purposefully withheld polling data that showed he had 0 chance to win, him and Kamala. Rather than attempt to find a candidate who would be popular in the general, they canceled the primaries.
Biden admin all but promised they would run 1 term in 2020, it was strictly an anti trump ticket in a post-covid world that was sick of him.
Trump was very simply a more popular candidate in 2024 who ran a much better campaign that wasn’t hamstrung by NOT talking about Palestine, the biggest news story at the time. People entirely forgot how bad he ratfucked us on covid, they remembered the name on the checks.
Any facist who follows that playbook within the general election will do the same, especially if there’s a opposition that quite literally knew they would lose and ran anyway. American elections are a joke because the American populace is fully captured by advertising and thus remain uneducated and ignorant.
Kamala could have won if Biden left later. Her best performance was immediately after he stepped down because they kept her from talking the entire Biden campaign (she was very unpopular). The second she had time to talk it was over, Kamala is a bad public speaker and terrible on the spot.
I’ll even tell you the moment she lost it. When she said the wall was a good idea on national television to Anderson Cooper. That was it. American elections are a popularity contest, we (the American populace) don’t take them seriously.
American elections are a popularity contest, we (the American populace) don’t take them seriously
That rather conveniently runs cover for the organization that does the most to decide what kind of campaign is run.
Like, oooh millions of people are disorganized and stupid. Shocker, Mr. Sherlock. But the small, powerful node of party leadership is also stupid and disorganized. That’s actually much more of pressing concern than, lol americans dumb
Americans are dumb because the system works as designed. The rich remove value, the populace feels like they have a say in things when really the decisions are made for them at a much higher level.
The party leadership isn’t stupid, the parties themselves act like corporations with diffusive responsibilities and agendas that lead to the same ends, the party leadership is agenda driven on maintaining power. Much like the party is.
The state of American voters and voting is a result that was arrived at on purpose. The populace doesn’t actually have any power in this representative democracy at the highest levels. It’s pure oligarchy.
Does it matter? By voting 3rd party or abstaining you didn’t hurt the DNC. It hurt everyone else in the country and in other countries we provided aid to. Cuba and Venezuela too.
The presidential election isn’t the time for protest voting when the opposition is literally telling you that you won’t ever get to vote again.
So do you think abstaining or protest voting 3rd party made them take it seriously? Did they change their tune when they lost? Do you honestly think the country is better for Trump beating Harris?
I’m not saying the DNC is flawless; I think it needs to go down in flames. But I’m also not stupid and understand the concept of prioritization.
Well that’s funny, since you’re not actually prioritizing well. Talking about 3rd-party/abstaining voters is a wasted effort. You reach those people with broad, national messaging. The kind you and I, on a dinky little not-reddit, don’t have access to.
You really gonna stop and have this conversation with each and every individual you assume didn’t vote Harris? You think that’s gonna move the needle? In an electoral environment measured in the hundred millions? That’s not a very effective use of your limited rhetorical time.
Why not prioritize getting the Democrats to actually take this seriously, to run a campaign that activates non-voters?
Oh, I know it won’t move the needle, I’m just pissed that idiots chose this election to take a pointless stand against the DNC and venting my frustration. They’re complicit in all of the harm done by Trump and friends due to how our election system works.
Harris chose to lose the most winnable election in history
Dems already shat the bed in 2022, handing Republicans a narrow majority in the House because they refused to pursue Congressional criminal misconduct from the prior administration or do anything about state voter disenfranchisement or gerrymandering while they controlled the federal government. Nevermind the clown car of corporate toadies and unloveable hacks they larded up with corporate donations.
Little reason to believe they’d do better in 2024, given that Biden made “supporting a genocide” and “rolling back COVID benefits” his central platforms for the next two years.
How is an election “winnable” when your party is married to policies everyone hates? It’s like complaining about Mitt Romney losing in 2012, when Obama was underwater. The GOP trotted out an absolutely odious corporate turd - a man who literally penned the editorial “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” four years earlier - and married him to a nepo-baby who hates social security as VP. Of course they fucking lost.
You don’t get to talk about an election being “winnable” if you insist sandbagging the primaries to run loser candidates in the general.
2024 was Trump’s election to lose. He capitalized on people’s disgust with liberals. He leaned heavily on TPUSA, QAnon, and other effective social media campaigns to juice MAGA support. He promised to bail out TikTok, the only company that wasn’t run by an American oligarch, while Biden was threatening to run them out of business. He rallied his base voters while liberals embarked upon the worst internal voter suppression campaign since 1968. And he did it all as fascist tendencies in the US were cresting.
Harris wasn’t running a winnable campaign. She was struggling (badly) to bail out a floundering Biden debacle.
If we don’t abolish this system we’re all going to die.
Everyone dies eventually. But this government seems intent on accelerating things.
I remember debates on Reddit. I kept pointing out that the official inflation figures fail to measure the pain people were figuring. But I just got downvoted to Hell by a bunch of troglodytes mindlessly parroting the CPI figures, as if that was the only thing that matters.
There is a severe strain of Orwellian magical thinking among liberals. Speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. Ignore all bad news and try to give your way to victory.
Trump only got 49.9% of the vote. He has never been popular, even by capitalizing on disgust with liberals. It really wasn’t his election to lose, he’s not actually a strong candidate. He won by playing against an opponent that doesn’t want to win.
Far be it from me to argue against the US being a backwards shithole racist country, because it obviously is and death to Amerikkka, but I don’t like the narrative that he had some kind of mandate to govern because he is so popular. He really doesn’t. He’s started without a majority and it’s been down hill ever since.
By the by, that’s just of the people who bothered to vote. If we counted non-voters, he got 32%
Only an idiot would look at the two options and not choose Harris. She wasn’t a great candidate, but she was orders of magnitude better than the alternative.
The DNC didn’t allow us to protest vote though… they forced Biden, he proved too feeble, forced Harris, who backed Isreal, and then (yet a-fucking-gain) saw a weak voter turnout.
I voted for the lesser of two evils, while holding my nose, like I needed to… but the rest of the country hates women and is too stupid to know what’s in our conjoined best-interest.
The dnc has been totally out to lunch since at least 2012. Shit I’m at a point I’d be happy to see a good Republican candidate, u ever listen to George Bush talking when he was in office? The goal posts have moved so far right he sounds like a democratic leftie by todays standards.
It was in 2008, DNC went hard on fucking over Obama, and rather than reform the DNC when he won, he washed his hands of them. Now we’re here, with a group that cares more about controlling the field of candidates rather than winning a general election.
There was a primary, just no one of any relevance ran against Biden because he was the incumbent and that’s the way we have always done it. I’m pretty sure I voted against Biden to make a point. Did you?
The DNC can’t actually force anything. They didn’t want Bernie running at all. They didn’t want AOC making every other Dem look like a conservative. They really didn’t want Zohran to show people that leftists can win. But all those things happened.
Not really, but that doesn’t change the fact that the other option was Donald “I’ll be a dictator on day one and you’ll never vote again” Trump.
In fact, I’d bet good money that the fact that she didn’t campaign in the primaries was the reason she softened several of her stances. Campaigning is expensive, especially if you’re starting super far behind the competition.
But just looking at her Senate voting history is enough to know she would have not been a bad president.
No matter how it might appear, the DNC didn’t fucking throw the election. Jesus Christ, who upvotes this shit?
Terminally online leftists need to get out and touch grass. No party will ever pander to you because not only is your bloc essentially nonexistent in the US, but you literally have no fucking idea how any of this shit actually works in real life.
If you think that the Democratic party is losing elections on purpose as a “fuck you” to voters, you are delusionally stupid.
They refuse to campaign on popular policies even when it increases their chances of losing because it doing otherwise would anger their donors. They know it might cause them to lose. It’s purposeful. What else do you call that?
The reason Harris lost is because people who voted for Biden in 2020 stayed home and because fewer young people voted than in previous elections, not because they voted for Trump. Democratic turnout fell by 2 million votes.
By the numbers, yes. Trump’s turnout increased by 1 million from 2020 whereas Democrats decreased by 2 million, and the loss of Democrat turnout was what pushed Trump over the edge. He still only got 49.9% of the vote, after all.
Harris chose to lose the most winnable election in history because Democrats know they can punish voters for being disloyal simply by allowing Republicans to win. If you demand too much from Democrats they will throw the election. It’s essentially a hostage situation, you must give unconditional support to the Good Cop or the Bad Cop will beat you to death. You don’t want the Bad Cop, do you?
If we don’t abolish this system we’re all going to die.
I shouldn’t have to scroll this far for a bit of sanity on God’s Lemmy. 😭
Only a moron would have looked at the two options we had and not picked Harris.
Was she a good candidate? Actually yes if you look at her Senate voting history. She was closer to Sanders than any other senator. She also, as VP, supported investigating Israel so they could bypass the law requiring us to give support.
Did she run a good campaign? Absolutely not. But, she basically had no time to actually run one. She needed money, fast, so she softened her stance on some things to secure it.
Was it a bad move? Yes. Was it a bad enough move to let Donald “I’m going to be a dictator on day one and you’ll never have to vote again” Trump win? Absolutely not.
Do you think you’re going to be able to reason with someone who literally just said that the Democrats threw the election on purpose because online leftists “demanded too much”?
Do online leftists hold any significant number?
If they do, like they love to pretend to, then they are part of the people responsible for all the horrible things Trump is doing. If they’re not, then why should anyone care?
Nah, not at all. I know I’m wasting my time
Are you seriously citing Senate voting history for what makes a good candidate? This is why liberals lose. They simply don’t have the sauce.
Are you seriously suggesting someone’s ACTIONS aren’t a good indicator?
What an idiot.
What’s your alternative that isn’t completely insane, “The Revolution will come” levels stupid? What a politician actually supports (instead of what they say) is the CLOSEST we will ever get objective proof of a candidates position.
We’re also a country made of idiots who as soon as we see somebody telling us shit we don’t want to hear we throw a tantrum and lose all ability to rationalize.
The DNC is an evil organization that is propping up a genocide and is mostly responsible to the whims of corporations. But that is because the DNC is essentially controlled by a group of republicans.
Harris ran a shit campaign because Joe Biden should have retired earlier and there should have been a big primary. This goes back to the 2020 election where Biden was basically propped up by the DNC and it turns out they propped up a senile old man with cancer.
Like any reasonable democrat running for office now should be saying we should put more democrats voters into the DNC and push out lobbyists.
OK, but she didn’t have time to run a better campaign because a lot of influential people (Harris included) in the Democratic party decided it was better to hide Biden’s deteriorating condition than confront it.
Does this seem like the actions of a party that genuinely considers Trump an existential threat?
A longer campaign would have made Harris perform worse.
They (the Biden admin) purposefully withheld polling data that showed he had 0 chance to win, him and Kamala. Rather than attempt to find a candidate who would be popular in the general, they canceled the primaries.
Biden admin all but promised they would run 1 term in 2020, it was strictly an anti trump ticket in a post-covid world that was sick of him.
Trump was very simply a more popular candidate in 2024 who ran a much better campaign that wasn’t hamstrung by NOT talking about Palestine, the biggest news story at the time. People entirely forgot how bad he ratfucked us on covid, they remembered the name on the checks.
Any facist who follows that playbook within the general election will do the same, especially if there’s a opposition that quite literally knew they would lose and ran anyway. American elections are a joke because the American populace is fully captured by advertising and thus remain uneducated and ignorant.
Kamala could have won if Biden left later. Her best performance was immediately after he stepped down because they kept her from talking the entire Biden campaign (she was very unpopular). The second she had time to talk it was over, Kamala is a bad public speaker and terrible on the spot.
I’ll even tell you the moment she lost it. When she said the wall was a good idea on national television to Anderson Cooper. That was it. American elections are a popularity contest, we (the American populace) don’t take them seriously.
That rather conveniently runs cover for the organization that does the most to decide what kind of campaign is run.
Like, oooh millions of people are disorganized and stupid. Shocker, Mr. Sherlock. But the small, powerful node of party leadership is also stupid and disorganized. That’s actually much more of pressing concern than, lol americans dumb
Americans are dumb because the system works as designed. The rich remove value, the populace feels like they have a say in things when really the decisions are made for them at a much higher level.
The party leadership isn’t stupid, the parties themselves act like corporations with diffusive responsibilities and agendas that lead to the same ends, the party leadership is agenda driven on maintaining power. Much like the party is.
The state of American voters and voting is a result that was arrived at on purpose. The populace doesn’t actually have any power in this representative democracy at the highest levels. It’s pure oligarchy.
The DNC isn’t stupid, it’s evil.
I completely agree
except for this. Two things can be true at once.
Lmao fair!
Does it matter? By voting 3rd party or abstaining you didn’t hurt the DNC. It hurt everyone else in the country and in other countries we provided aid to. Cuba and Venezuela too.
The presidential election isn’t the time for protest voting when the opposition is literally telling you that you won’t ever get to vote again.
You want to hurt the DNC? Do it in the primaries.
OK, so we’re gonna quibble over 3rd party voters again, and just dismiss the fact that DNC leadership doesn’t take this seriously. Great.
So do you think abstaining or protest voting 3rd party made them take it seriously? Did they change their tune when they lost? Do you honestly think the country is better for Trump beating Harris?
I’m not saying the DNC is flawless; I think it needs to go down in flames. But I’m also not stupid and understand the concept of prioritization.
Well that’s funny, since you’re not actually prioritizing well. Talking about 3rd-party/abstaining voters is a wasted effort. You reach those people with broad, national messaging. The kind you and I, on a dinky little not-reddit, don’t have access to.
You really gonna stop and have this conversation with each and every individual you assume didn’t vote Harris? You think that’s gonna move the needle? In an electoral environment measured in the hundred millions? That’s not a very effective use of your limited rhetorical time.
Why not prioritize getting the Democrats to actually take this seriously, to run a campaign that activates non-voters?
Oh, I know it won’t move the needle, I’m just pissed that idiots chose this election to take a pointless stand against the DNC and venting my frustration. They’re complicit in all of the harm done by Trump and friends due to how our election system works.
Harm reduction only reduces harm in the short term. You’re still feeding the system that got the country in that situation to begin with.
What election would you have preferred they take that stand?
The only way to actually reform the DNC is to elect an outsider even if they are more likely to lose the general election.
Elect an outsider in the primaries, right?
The DNC controls the primaries.
Yes
Dems already shat the bed in 2022, handing Republicans a narrow majority in the House because they refused to pursue Congressional criminal misconduct from the prior administration or do anything about state voter disenfranchisement or gerrymandering while they controlled the federal government. Nevermind the clown car of corporate toadies and unloveable hacks they larded up with corporate donations.
Little reason to believe they’d do better in 2024, given that Biden made “supporting a genocide” and “rolling back COVID benefits” his central platforms for the next two years.
How is an election “winnable” when your party is married to policies everyone hates? It’s like complaining about Mitt Romney losing in 2012, when Obama was underwater. The GOP trotted out an absolutely odious corporate turd - a man who literally penned the editorial “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” four years earlier - and married him to a nepo-baby who hates social security as VP. Of course they fucking lost.
You don’t get to talk about an election being “winnable” if you insist sandbagging the primaries to run loser candidates in the general.
2024 was Trump’s election to lose. He capitalized on people’s disgust with liberals. He leaned heavily on TPUSA, QAnon, and other effective social media campaigns to juice MAGA support. He promised to bail out TikTok, the only company that wasn’t run by an American oligarch, while Biden was threatening to run them out of business. He rallied his base voters while liberals embarked upon the worst internal voter suppression campaign since 1968. And he did it all as fascist tendencies in the US were cresting.
Harris wasn’t running a winnable campaign. She was struggling (badly) to bail out a floundering Biden debacle.
Everyone dies eventually. But this government seems intent on accelerating things.
And the fact is that you tell people this, verifiable fact, and they get mad and stick fingers in their ears. They really want to lose.
I remember debates on Reddit. I kept pointing out that the official inflation figures fail to measure the pain people were figuring. But I just got downvoted to Hell by a bunch of troglodytes mindlessly parroting the CPI figures, as if that was the only thing that matters.
There is a severe strain of Orwellian magical thinking among liberals. Speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. Ignore all bad news and try to give your way to victory.
Trump only got 49.9% of the vote. He has never been popular, even by capitalizing on disgust with liberals. It really wasn’t his election to lose, he’s not actually a strong candidate. He won by playing against an opponent that doesn’t want to win.
Idk about you, but 49.9% of the vote sounds very popular to me.
Hell 10% sounds popular.
I don’t think the issue is his popularity. He’s definitely popular
Far be it from me to argue against the US being a backwards shithole racist country, because it obviously is and death to Amerikkka, but I don’t like the narrative that he had some kind of mandate to govern because he is so popular. He really doesn’t. He’s started without a majority and it’s been down hill ever since.
By the by, that’s just of the people who bothered to vote. If we counted non-voters, he got 32%
I take issue with your use of the adjective “good” in “good cop”.
Only an idiot would look at the two options and not choose Harris. She wasn’t a great candidate, but she was orders of magnitude better than the alternative.
The time to protest vote is in the primaries.
The DNC didn’t allow us to protest vote though… they forced Biden, he proved too feeble, forced Harris, who backed Isreal, and then (yet a-fucking-gain) saw a weak voter turnout. I voted for the lesser of two evils, while holding my nose, like I needed to… but the rest of the country hates women and is too stupid to know what’s in our conjoined best-interest.
The dnc has been totally out to lunch since at least 2012. Shit I’m at a point I’d be happy to see a good Republican candidate, u ever listen to George Bush talking when he was in office? The goal posts have moved so far right he sounds like a democratic leftie by todays standards.
It was in 2008, DNC went hard on fucking over Obama, and rather than reform the DNC when he won, he washed his hands of them. Now we’re here, with a group that cares more about controlling the field of candidates rather than winning a general election.
The DNC wanted the win of “first black president” and never wanted to push for polices to allow another one to happen.
It really fucks with your mind doesn’t it? I’m not even THAT old, and even I recall when Republicans were slightly more left than modern Democrats.
Before 9/11 he actually wanted to fast track the path to citizenship. I think if it hadn’t happened he would have been a pretty ok one term president.
There was a primary, just no one of any relevance ran against Biden because he was the incumbent and that’s the way we have always done it. I’m pretty sure I voted against Biden to make a point. Did you?
The DNC can’t actually force anything. They didn’t want Bernie running at all. They didn’t want AOC making every other Dem look like a conservative. They really didn’t want Zohran to show people that leftists can win. But all those things happened.
The expression “Democrats have once again snatched defeat from the jaws of victory” is sadly accurate, for the wrong reasons.
The primaries are run by the DNC, you silly goose!
There were primaries?
Not really, but that doesn’t change the fact that the other option was Donald “I’ll be a dictator on day one and you’ll never vote again” Trump.
In fact, I’d bet good money that the fact that she didn’t campaign in the primaries was the reason she softened several of her stances. Campaigning is expensive, especially if you’re starting super far behind the competition.
But just looking at her Senate voting history is enough to know she would have not been a bad president.
Lol no thanks!
No matter how it might appear, the DNC didn’t fucking throw the election. Jesus Christ, who upvotes this shit?
Terminally online leftists need to get out and touch grass. No party will ever pander to you because not only is your bloc essentially nonexistent in the US, but you literally have no fucking idea how any of this shit actually works in real life.
If you think that the Democratic party is losing elections on purpose as a “fuck you” to voters, you are delusionally stupid.
They refuse to campaign on popular policies even when it increases their chances of losing because it doing otherwise would anger their donors. They know it might cause them to lose. It’s purposeful. What else do you call that?
The only other reasonable explanation is that they’re too stupid and don’t know how to win elections.
If you think that the Democratic party are stupid, you are delusional.
I doubt it. Trump got those votes regardless of what Harris could’ve done.
People want to be openly racist and homophobic.
The reason Harris lost is because people who voted for Biden in 2020 stayed home and because fewer young people voted than in previous elections, not because they voted for Trump. Democratic turnout fell by 2 million votes.
Would it have made a difference and out weighed the racism votes? After brexiit, I’ll n never underestimate the power of hate.
By the numbers, yes. Trump’s turnout increased by 1 million from 2020 whereas Democrats decreased by 2 million, and the loss of Democrat turnout was what pushed Trump over the edge. He still only got 49.9% of the vote, after all.
But it isn’t the amount of votes, it’s the states that are won/lost. I’m not from US and I know that…
It would have made a difference in Michigan specifically. He won by 80 thousand votes.