• lurch (he/him)@sh.itjust.works
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    2 days ago

    If you hate against Dems, even if it’s the same amount as GOP, and you dont topple the regime and fix the democracy first, you will just help the GOP.

    Let’s be real: US Americans won’t actually burn those parties, while the fascists will vote GOP, no matter what you say. So you just make the GOP stronger, talking like that, in the current situation. This talk only works in proper democracies, where third parties can rise and form a coalition with yet bigger parties, before the government becomes full fascist. I don’t see this potential in the US.

    • sunnie@slrpnk.net
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      2 days ago

      Thank you for the example of Dems demanding your vote without offering anything in return. If you don’t like how they don’t represent you, the choices they offer are voting for them anyway or overthrowing the government.

      • webadict@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        The fact that you think they offer you nothing is disingenuous at best and boldly lying at worst. Like, I get that these two options both suck. They do. But, I’m going to pick the lesser evil every single time, time after time, because if I don’t, more people WILL DIE. That is provably true. Trump and his regime have caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands around the world that simply would not have happened under Kamala. And that’s not including the millions that died from his last term from the pandemic, where the response team was fired and he bungled the shit out of that.

        But, let’s think about your overthrow solution: How many people WILL DIE from attempting to overthrow the government? Like, forget that overthrowing the government leaves a power vacuum and that you don’t have a solid coalition to keep things going, and we’ll just assume that things will somehow run smoothly… Millions will die in a direct fight. There is simply not enough support for dissolving the government. Do you think people that vote for the Democrats are also just going to willy-nilly join your army? Are you going to get everyone to general strike tomorrow? What’s the plan? Will the army stand down? Will police not crack down? The Pinkertons still exist, you know.

        This revolution you propose is going to take YEARS of prep work. You need to have a functioning system of aid and support before you can do something that ambitious, especially if you want it to be relatively bloodless. And in the meantime, we need as many people alive and a part of that as possible.

        So, even if your plan is to overthrow the government, removing the people who will do real and lasting harm to your allies in that fight and replacing them with people who at the very least do less harm IS A PRETTY GOOD PLAN. I would rather walk an unwilling government to a better position than hope the killing of it will give us an even better position, but I think that even if you disagree, you have to see that you can vote for harm reduction AND plan for a revolution. It’s not fucking either or.

      • Velypso@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        Harm reduction, in this case, is the smartest move.

        If you think otherwise, you probably have a mental illness.

        • sunnie@slrpnk.net
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          1 day ago

          Harm reduction is typified by an actual reduction in harm. I think the illness you’re looking for is Stockholm Syndrome

          • Velypso@sh.itjust.works
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            4 hours ago

            In what world do you exist that kamala (or even fucking biden) invades iran and also murders US citizens via ICE in Minneapolis?

            Please fucking tell me.

            • Chakravanti@monero.town
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              3 hours ago

              What do you mean? Are there no mirrors in your custom dead tree box of squawking pictures?

              I’m serious. Just because I dress like Ledger sometimes doesn’t mean I’m not working to solve this delirious paradox you front page. Yes, I mean that as my why if you bother to ask my question.

              Nothing you stipulate hasn’t not been done since before you were born. Notice that I didn’t bother to even ask your age.

    • tacosanonymous@mander.xyz
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      2 days ago

      I agree with 100%

      We need to organize and overthrow our governing body. We also need to reject apathetics (they haven’t got a real word for this, surprisingly) who preach disengagement but don’t fucking do anything but complain. Be the change you want to see in the world, quit bitching and doing nothing.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
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      2 days ago

      If you hate against Dems, even if it’s the same amount as GOP, and you dont topple the regime and fix the democracy first, you will just help the GOP.

      Translation to plain English: successfully overthrow the entire system or meekly accept everything the lesser evil offers you without complaints, no matter how evil.

      Let’s be real

      Yes, let’s.

      Your pretending that all criticism of the shortcomings of Dems amounts to support for the fascists is the same thing as fascists do when semi-fascists who ACTUALLY support the fascists dare mildly question Dear Leader.

      So you just make the GOP stronger, talking like that, in the current situation.

      On the contrary: you’re making the GOP stronger by enabling the fecklessness of their so-called opposition.

      I don’t see this potential in the US.

      Of course you wouldn’t, being an unwitting part of the problem yourself.

      Stifling all dissent in a misguided attempt at not making an unresponsive party look bad makes that party look WORSE and thus LESS likely to attract the votes it needs in order to win elections.

      • Mythra@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 days ago

        Americans falling for the same old scam of a fake democracy over and over and over again. 2 heads, 1 monster.

        • Chakravanti@monero.town
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          3 hours ago

          No, there’s more heads than you bother to count.

          You’re pointing at the stage and ignoring the strings of not-paper in your hand.

          It doesn’t even bother to note you that those strings are zapping all bothersome you feel from being so obnoxious from having to count them and make sure no one stole your strings.

          You thought the strings brought you dinner.

          That dinner just poisoned your whole decaying concept of having a concept of perception to begin with.

      • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Overthrow the government, or vote for the lesser evil. Yes. Those are the options. The lesser evil here is pushing for as many progressives in primaries and then voting dem. Overthrow includes a massive non-ending strike with coordinated goals. But even that seems impossible. So vote accordingly. What else is there to do?

          • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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            19 hours ago

            Not overthrown per se, but dramatically change directions maybe. Especially for a government beholden to the billionaires if they actually start to lose money, power.

            • lurch (he/him)@sh.itjust.works
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              19 hours ago

              they have enough money to sit this out tho.

              and it won’t be lasting fix, because the old and rotten power structures will still be in place. (like trump reverted things his predecessors did. as soon as he was back in power, for example.)

              • CannonFodder@lemmy.world
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                15 hours ago

                Don’t get me wrong, pitchforks and guillotines would be better. But surprisingly, the billionaires can’t stand losing money even though obviously it doesn’t really affect them.