I notice you didn’t answer my question about if Rosa Luxemburg would have voted against the Nazis had she been alive to do so. I find that telling.
You find it telling because you’re repeating the same mistake you have this entire conversation with me. Thinking you’re capable of convincing me to vote for your shit candidates out of fear, and that you have nothing to learn here about how your voting pattern has lead to the very situation you’re now desperately trying to correct by… doing the exact same thing that got everyone into this mess.
I didnt respond regarding rosa luxemburg because the answer is immaterial and the answer on what I’d do is very evident in my responses to people so what ‘rosa luxemburg would do’ has zero relevance to the conversation since QED: she isnt me. You’re trying to use hero worship and an appeal to an authority to make your case, which is not how I view rosa luxemburg and if you understood anything about anarchists you wouldnt make this mistake.
I didn’t shame you for not voting, I simply pointed out that not voting(not choosing) is also a choice and not necessarily a morally pure choice, especially when faced with fascists.
You’ve absolutely been attempting to shame people. That’s your whole drive with the ‘morally pure’ concept to begin with. a concept I’ve never subscribed to in the first place. you’re simply trying to assert positions onto me that I dont hold. I’ll repeat the point clearly again for you: ‘An individual is not responsible for the actions of candidate A through not voting for candidate B’. I dont get sullied because trump is an utter cunt. I am sullied for the vote I gave biden who was also an utter cunt.
I never said I was morally absolved purely by not voting, I said I’m not morally responsible of the actions of the person whom I didnt vote for, and if I was declaring abstaining from voting altogether, which i never have, then maybe you’d have a case. but since its not, and I do vote when the candidate is actually useful it doesnt apply. If you want people to blame for fascism look to the people voting for the fascists (cough you, lesser evil every day individual, via voting for the fascist wing of the democratic party and whom have been enabling the republican party since 1996 and longer cough)
When someone beats their partner 3 towns over are you responsible through the fact you were watching tv that night despite you knowing that the person was violent? No, of course not.
I dont get sullied because trump is an utter cunt. I am sullied for the vote I gave biden who was also an utter cunt.
You are sullied if you vote for the establishment candidate, perpetuating the current status quo. You are sullied if you don’t vote against the fascist. Choisir entre la peste et le choléra, as I said above.
(cough you, lesser evil every day individual, via voting for the fascist wing of the democratic party and whom have been enabling the republican party since 1996 and longer cough)
You didn’t read my comments properly. If you had, you would have gathered I voted for neither Biden or Trump, as I am not American. In any case, I haven’t voted in anything other than a local election in two decades, which once again, wouldn’t surprise you, if you had read my comments.
When someone beats their partner 3 towns over are you responsible through the fact you were watching tv that night despite you knowing that the person was violent? No, of course not.
It’s a poor analogy, but maybe I can rescue it.
If you can save someone from being beaten and perhaps murdered, you should arguably do that. But if always stepping in, results in the abused never leaving their abuser and being murdered when you’re not able to save them, you have arguably enabled poor behaviour and done more harm than good.
There is no good or moral choice. As I said a few comments above, there are no easy answers.
You are sullied if you vote for the establishment candidate, perpetuating the current status quo.
correct.
You are sullied if you don’t vote against the fascist. Choisir entre la peste et le choléra, as I said above.
Correct, both le pen and macron’s parties are fascist. you’re finally making progress!
You didn’t read my comment properly. If you had read my comment, you would have gathered I voted for neither Biden or Trump, as I am not American.
I did. I know you’re not american. trump is a an example. are you mentally capable of abstraction? have you passed algebra? If not we should stop here since you dont have the capability to continue.
It’s a poor analogy, but maybe I can rescue it.
No, you can’t because it was intentionally a poor analogy, but you’ve agreed with the premise that you’re not morally responsible for the actions of another individual, in the most basic of situations.
The next step is to move to a situation where two people directly call you simultaneously asking for you to come get them before their partner beats them (Partner A: Le Pen v Partner B: Macron). Unfortunately you’re at another friends house and cannot drive to either fast enough to get to either of them in time. are you morally responsible for the resulting beatings these individuals receive from their partners?
I made no progress in my position. As mentioned above, I haven’t voted in a national election in twenty years.
I am simply reiterating my comments from above, in the hopes you will finally understand them. I’m at least glad you’ve finally caught on I’m not telling you to vote for the lesser evil, the rest not so much, but oh well.
Let’s leave it there. This conversation wasn’t productive, that won’t change.
oh, suddenly when the answer to the premise doesnt match the nonsense position you’re suddenly incapable of responding. No, now I want you to continue. you need to learn what the fuck you’re doing when you espouse voting for the ‘least terrible candidate’. do you think we are joking when we say ‘scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds’?
I could break this down mathematically how ‘vote for the least terrible candidate’ results in worse outcomes across the board over time but I doubt you have the masters/PHD in mathemetics to follow it. Voting ‘least terrible’ is a position promoted by capital to slow down societal change and 99% of you dont even know it.
But the fact is you weren’t here to understand, you were here to try and correct the poor misguided anarchists who have been fighting against fascism for generations.
when you espouse voting for the ‘least terrible candidate
Back to that again. Didn’t happen.
In fact, I compared the choice between voting and not voting, to a choice between plague and cholera.
I doubt you have the masters/PHD in mathemetics to follow it.
You can’t spell mathematics… I don’t think I’ll be attending your statistics lecture.
the poor misguided anarchists who have been fighting against fascism for generations.
If you tried to fight your way out of a cardboard box, you’d probably end arguing with the instruction manual. Don’t think we need your help fighting international fascism.
Alright back from yoga, I’ll stop treating you like a liberal, you were speaking enough like one I really didnt bother paying attention to you.
Back to that again. Didn’t happen.
Yes, it did happen. Truly curious what did you think you were saying when you espoused this french phrase if not ‘vote for the lesser evil’, unless something was lost in translation and the french considered both equally bad during the period the phase was coined?
You’ll forgive me if the translation lost your meaning… Maybe now you’ll see where the confusion came from. I apologize for not picking up on it sooner. I really wasnt paying much attention to you.
In French they say “Choisir entre la peste et le choléra”. Choosing between plague or cholera.
Sadly france is probably already fucked. I do wish you well but seriously Macron is your version of joe biden/HRC. One thing you guys do have going for you is you dont have to deal with FPTP two party system on top of everything else.
If you tried to fight your way out of a cardboard box, you’d probably end arguing with the instruction manual…
Probably. I just havent really been paying attention to these threads. nothing interesting has been said.
Don’t think we need your help fighting international fascism.
laugh Thankfully you dont need to like me to use the tools I’ve been building dealing with trump here if you end up at the point where le pen has power.
You find it telling because you’re repeating the same mistake you have this entire conversation with me. Thinking you’re capable of convincing me to vote for your shit candidates out of fear, and that you have nothing to learn here about how your voting pattern has lead to the very situation you’re now desperately trying to correct by… doing the exact same thing that got everyone into this mess.
I didnt respond regarding rosa luxemburg because the answer is immaterial and the answer on what I’d do is very evident in my responses to people so what ‘rosa luxemburg would do’ has zero relevance to the conversation since QED: she isnt me. You’re trying to use hero worship and an appeal to an authority to make your case, which is not how I view rosa luxemburg and if you understood anything about anarchists you wouldnt make this mistake.
You’ve absolutely been attempting to shame people. That’s your whole drive with the ‘morally pure’ concept to begin with. a concept I’ve never subscribed to in the first place. you’re simply trying to assert positions onto me that I dont hold. I’ll repeat the point clearly again for you: ‘An individual is not responsible for the actions of candidate A through not voting for candidate B’. I dont get sullied because trump is an utter cunt. I am sullied for the vote I gave biden who was also an utter cunt.
I never said I was morally absolved purely by not voting, I said I’m not morally responsible of the actions of the person whom I didnt vote for, and if I was declaring abstaining from voting altogether, which i never have, then maybe you’d have a case. but since its not, and I do vote when the candidate is actually useful it doesnt apply. If you want people to blame for fascism look to the people voting for the fascists (cough you, lesser evil every day individual, via voting for the fascist wing of the democratic party and whom have been enabling the republican party since 1996 and longer cough)
When someone beats their partner 3 towns over are you responsible through the fact you were watching tv that night despite you knowing that the person was violent? No, of course not.
You are sullied if you vote for the establishment candidate, perpetuating the current status quo. You are sullied if you don’t vote against the fascist. Choisir entre la peste et le choléra, as I said above.
You didn’t read my comments properly. If you had, you would have gathered I voted for neither Biden or Trump, as I am not American. In any case, I haven’t voted in anything other than a local election in two decades, which once again, wouldn’t surprise you, if you had read my comments.
It’s a poor analogy, but maybe I can rescue it.
If you can save someone from being beaten and perhaps murdered, you should arguably do that. But if always stepping in, results in the abused never leaving their abuser and being murdered when you’re not able to save them, you have arguably enabled poor behaviour and done more harm than good.
There is no good or moral choice. As I said a few comments above, there are no easy answers.
correct.
Correct, both le pen and macron’s parties are fascist. you’re finally making progress!
I did. I know you’re not american. trump is a an example. are you mentally capable of abstraction? have you passed algebra? If not we should stop here since you dont have the capability to continue.
No, you can’t because it was intentionally a poor analogy, but you’ve agreed with the premise that you’re not morally responsible for the actions of another individual, in the most basic of situations.
The next step is to move to a situation where two people directly call you simultaneously asking for you to come get them before their partner beats them (Partner A: Le Pen v Partner B: Macron). Unfortunately you’re at another friends house and cannot drive to either fast enough to get to either of them in time. are you morally responsible for the resulting beatings these individuals receive from their partners?
I made no progress in my position. As mentioned above, I haven’t voted in a national election in twenty years.
I am simply reiterating my comments from above, in the hopes you will finally understand them. I’m at least glad you’ve finally caught on I’m not telling you to vote for the lesser evil, the rest not so much, but oh well.
Let’s leave it there. This conversation wasn’t productive, that won’t change.
oh, suddenly when the answer to the premise doesnt match the nonsense position you’re suddenly incapable of responding. No, now I want you to continue. you need to learn what the fuck you’re doing when you espouse voting for the ‘least terrible candidate’. do you think we are joking when we say ‘scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds’?
I could break this down mathematically how ‘vote for the least terrible candidate’ results in worse outcomes across the board over time but I doubt you have the masters/PHD in mathemetics to follow it. Voting ‘least terrible’ is a position promoted by capital to slow down societal change and 99% of you dont even know it.
But the fact is you weren’t here to understand, you were here to try and correct the poor misguided anarchists who have been fighting against fascism for generations.
Back to that again. Didn’t happen.
In fact, I compared the choice between voting and not voting, to a choice between plague and cholera.
You can’t spell mathematics… I don’t think I’ll be attending your statistics lecture.
If you tried to fight your way out of a cardboard box, you’d probably end arguing with the instruction manual. Don’t think we need your help fighting international fascism.
Alright back from yoga, I’ll stop treating you like a liberal, you were speaking enough like one I really didnt bother paying attention to you.
Yes, it did happen. Truly curious what did you think you were saying when you espoused this french phrase if not ‘vote for the lesser evil’, unless something was lost in translation and the french considered both equally bad during the period the phase was coined?
You’ll forgive me if the translation lost your meaning… Maybe now you’ll see where the confusion came from. I apologize for not picking up on it sooner. I really wasnt paying much attention to you.
Sadly france is probably already fucked. I do wish you well but seriously Macron is your version of joe biden/HRC. One thing you guys do have going for you is you dont have to deal with FPTP two party system on top of everything else.
Probably. I just havent really been paying attention to these threads. nothing interesting has been said.
laugh Thankfully you dont need to like me to use the tools I’ve been building dealing with trump here if you end up at the point where le pen has power.