My favorite thing about the Bible is that the gospels were written by followers of the disciples, who themselves didn’t know how to read or write, in Aramaic, then translated to Greek, then to Latin, then censored by the council of Nicea, then finally translated into English with the Geneva, then quickly edited by the commission of King James, because the J-Sauce was very socialist and anti-government.
And the atheists who want to quote terrible things mentioned in the bible are pulling from the Old Testament, specifically a book of law written by the King Joshua, 800 years before Jesus, and proclaim that people proclaim it to be the word of God.
So, ok: we have so many translations, literally a mass obliteration of Cathars, as well as other Inquisitions… now, you wanna tell me you know jack shit about the bible and tell me things didn’t happen?
Ok. Cool, bro.
Edit: btw, the two loaves of bread and five fish story was about a 12 year old boy. Jesus didn’t magic shit other than inspiration in that story. Lost in translation/Nicea/government. You may be kept hidden from the teachings, because Jesus was punk fucking rock.
And a King didn’t want you to even know it! That’s my point, good ol’ JKV that every goddamn “scholar” quotes from.
Biblegateway.com is an AWESOME tool. I don’t have a preference towards any translation. Sometimes, I will dig down to the Vulgate or Greek. I sure as shit have to admit I can’t read Aramaic.
But you can put in the verse and flip between translations on the fly and look for commonalities.
That’s how I eventually discovered the Barabbas was Jesus, and that required me to get down to the Vulgate.
Bro I didn’t even read your comment because it was discussing the legitimacy of different interpretations of thousand year old fanfics. It’s meaningless. The book makes some good points about being nice to each other, but it’s not real. It’s literal hallucinations and grifts by people over hundreds of years.
I don’t need to get a PhD on theology to determine that it’s all fucking lies.
And you think this makes me MAGA…? Fuck that’s sad. What a worthless worldview you have.
Jokes are funnier when they don’t have to be explained.
Not commenting on anything for the chain, just this thing. Agree, but personally that’s more on the teller than the listener.
However, I really enjoy explaining my jokes when people ask or people explaining their jokes. At that point it isn’t about laughing but about learning things I missed or alternative viewpoints.
Apologies, I’m going to do something that I think is kind of a jerk move and paste my standard argument for a very specific point. It’s a jerk move because I see that you wrote a genuine reply and I appreciate that. I don’t know enough about the specific points that you raised to discuss them directly, so I’m falling back on my broader thinking. To that end, I’m truly trying to contribute to the discussion (even though I’m pasting a repeated(-by-me) blurb; see my sibling post; I’m pretty into this topic). I respect your views even if we disagree, so long as you don’t try to impose them on others, which I’m not saying you do / did.
Jesus is an ahistorical figure who was originally crucified in the firmament above the earth. Notice no mention of an earthly ministry in the Pauline epistles; Paul is arguing for salvation from a heavenly figure. In his letters, Jesus is still to be revealed, rather than returning. Only decades later did the stories about a human man get written.
The Didache was most likely part of the letter written by the “pillars in Jerusalem” (James the Just, Peter, and John) after their meeting with Paul. This was the meeting to discuss the matter of preaching to gentiles and whether circumcision ought to be required for christian converts. It contains many of the tenets later ascribed to Jesus, but doesn’t associate him with teaching them.
The reason the earthly story was embraced by the church was to stop people like Paul from having visions of Christ that the church couldn’t control. By pointing to a real guy on earth, they could control the message. Otherwise, any yokel on the street could teach that Jesus revealed new teachings and the church risked being undermined.
Marcion was probably the first to create a collection of writings associated with christianity: he collected some of Paul’s letters and had his own gospel. It was thought that he had a shortened version of Luke (as testified by Eusebius and Tertullian). Marcion, however, claimed that his gospel had been “judaized”; this suggests that his shorter version was the original gospel before others modified it.
Acts was written as a direct response to Marcion’s scripture. It was written to harmonize Paul’s high-jacking of the religion by making he and Peter appear to be in alignment when actually he was at odds with the leaders in Jerusalem.
The Jerusalem pillars (James, Peter, John), were strict adherents of Judaism, whereas Paul taught that Jesus made the Law / Torah unnecessary. They were almost certainly Essenes, one of the three flavors of Judaism at the time (the other two were the Pharisees and Sadducees mentioned in the new testament). John the Baptist was clearly also an Essene. He’s said to wear camel’s hair with a leather belt around his waist and ate locusts and honey. His practice of baptism also aligns with daily ritual water immersion believed to be a core practice of the Essenes.
This is a very long way of saying that Jesus first appeared in visions and spoke to the early leaders without walking on earth. It’s a fringe belief about which I was quite skeptical, but damn if the evidence doesn’t line up. See Robert Price, Earl Doherty, and Elbe Spurling for more info. Elbe’s online book is free and contains a huge amount of historical information about the region at the.
You are claiming Jesus is ahistorical, using the term to basically mean fictional. Those aren’t the same.
Jesus was crucified here on Earth, and his crime was pissing off Pontius Pilate. He would help people without going through the proper channels.
The religious leaders were getting kick backs from the Roman Empire, as they were taxing the people for religious reassurance. Jesus was doing it for free.
His disciples didn’t understand what he was doing, because Simon wanted a cult. The other Simon and Judas were picking up what he was throwing down.
He then told Judas to identify him to lead by example and show the harsh brutality of their governance.
And Jesus didn’t “live without sin”. He stole a donkey just to ride it into town, just for a performance act which he was tried for, because he was claiming himself King of the Jews.
I don’t see him as being fictional. Ahistorical I can concede, as he wasn’t literally born during Yule. And that is another fun topic I can delve into.
However, he reminds me of Abbie Hoffman.
Anyhow, while his records are muffed, he was a living human who said a lot of things you can catch in the Vulgate, which includes proof that the Jews didn’t free a murderer and condemn Jesus. Barabbas means son of God, while Christos is King of the Jews.
In the Vulgate, it makes it clear. Jesus went before two judges. “Are you the son of God?” and “Are you the king of the Jews?”
“If you say so.” The vulgate also reveals that Barrabas had a first name: Jesus.
So to appeal to the Jewish populace, as they could see that their tyranny was causing insurrection, certainly amplified by Jesus, they gave a tricky deal:
We will free a prisoner. This man who claims he is your messiah! Or this man who claims he is the son of God.
“Free the Son of God.”
Well, you said it. Don’t blame us. It is your fault.
And that’s why Jesus was put on display with the sign that says, “Here lies the King of the Jews.”
Now, I realize you are saying his existence is fictional. I don’t care. I love the story. Some people really get into Warhammer lore. And the same with Star Wars: just because it got retconned all to shit doesn’t mean Episode 4 didn’t kick ass.
The “Christians” who didn’t study the Bible don’t follow the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus was punk rock and worthy of study. Buddhism fell in the same hole.
You are buying into and, sure, trying your best to reject the propaganda. But you are buying into the “official story” just the same as the “Christians” you disdain.
Study the Bible, and then when some evangelical asshole wants to tell them that you will burn in eternity in Hell, you can correct them: Hell is simply destruction, literally what atheists consider death to be.
But Jesus was way cool, and not as magical as the GOVERNMENTS that killed him for insurrection want us to believe.
Study it and cross reference the translations, and you will find the point being made.
I know, it takes time, and this thread makes me want to just write a book that summarizes the Bible, like it is Harry Potter, but of course citing sources.
Ask away, my man. Look at the rest of the thread because some of us are having some deep dives into the topic.
In regards to the 12 year old boy, the people were complaining about hunger. Jesus gave a sermon saying we should share food.
The 12 year old offered 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread, which was his paycheck, to a disciple. The disciple asked Jesus, “Wtf am I supposed to do with this?”
“Disperse it.”
5000 men, meaning 5000 families as children and women were being counted, ran to their pantries, inspired by the boy, to grab what they could find. Shit that was just sitting on the shelves that they didn’t have the rest of the ingredients to actually use it.
It is a story of an impromptu potluck. The magic was only the words of Jesus and the generosity of that 12 year old boy.
And everyone was fucking fed. That’s properly administrated socialism. Love your neighbor. Government doesn’t even need to be involved.
Look, I am saying that I agree with what Jesus taught, no question. But I don’t think he was a magic zombie man.
And I do believe in God/Godhead, and I am not a hard physicalist.
The miracle of Jesus is mostly that he helped people without asking for money, which the pharisees and sadducees were doing by order of the Roman empire, while additionally refusing to assist gentiles.
And the J-Sauce was like, “fuck this stupid shit. And fuck the Romans and their self-perceived authority to deny the basic commandment: Love thy neighbor.”
Jesus was punk as fuck. He refused to stand down, the Romans tried to twist the narrative so that his own supporters would be blamed, and made an example of.
But that holy spirit should die. Hence, fuck ICE. I will happily die to defend my neighbor, without using any force. Just an example.
But if you strike me first, well, I will take action to stop you from doing it again. Pacifism is not submission.
My favorite thing about the Bible is that the gospels were written by followers of the disciples, who themselves didn’t know how to read or write, in Aramaic, then translated to Greek, then to Latin, then censored by the council of Nicea, then finally translated into English with the Geneva, then quickly edited by the commission of King James, because the J-Sauce was very socialist and anti-government.
And the atheists who want to quote terrible things mentioned in the bible are pulling from the Old Testament, specifically a book of law written by the King Joshua, 800 years before Jesus, and proclaim that people proclaim it to be the word of God.
So, ok: we have so many translations, literally a mass obliteration of Cathars, as well as other Inquisitions… now, you wanna tell me you know jack shit about the bible and tell me things didn’t happen?
Ok. Cool, bro.
Edit: btw, the two loaves of bread and five fish story was about a 12 year old boy. Jesus didn’t magic shit other than inspiration in that story. Lost in translation/Nicea/government. You may be kept hidden from the teachings, because Jesus was punk fucking rock.
And a King didn’t want you to even know it! That’s my point, good ol’ JKV that every goddamn “scholar” quotes from.
What is your preferred translation of the Bible? Are there any other books you’d recommend on this topic?
Biblegateway.com is an AWESOME tool. I don’t have a preference towards any translation. Sometimes, I will dig down to the Vulgate or Greek. I sure as shit have to admit I can’t read Aramaic.
But you can put in the verse and flip between translations on the fly and look for commonalities.
That’s how I eventually discovered the Barabbas was Jesus, and that required me to get down to the Vulgate.
It’s all horseshit.
Thank you for attending my lecture.
Succinct. Informative. Accurate. No notes.
So you are MAGA?
Maybe your knowledge of the topic is just horseshit.
Bro I didn’t even read your comment because it was discussing the legitimacy of different interpretations of thousand year old fanfics. It’s meaningless. The book makes some good points about being nice to each other, but it’s not real. It’s literal hallucinations and grifts by people over hundreds of years.
I don’t need to get a PhD on theology to determine that it’s all fucking lies.
And you think this makes me MAGA…? Fuck that’s sad. What a worthless worldview you have.
Funny he mentions MAGA in the context of christ, as they tend to be Christian nationalists.
Who aren’t Christian, btw. I am criticizing logic through facetious statements.
Jokes are funnier when they don’t have to be explained. But hey, breathe through the mouth: it is a valid channel.
Have you thought that nothing you’ve said is funny?
What a weird way to complement my humor. I think you have the ability to be funny, too!
?
Not commenting on anything for the chain, just this thing. Agree, but personally that’s more on the teller than the listener.
However, I really enjoy explaining my jokes when people ask or people explaining their jokes. At that point it isn’t about laughing but about learning things I missed or alternative viewpoints.
You can’t see the tone of my voice. You can’t hear the expression on my face.
You can’t feel my energy without shaking my hand.
Welcome to the Internet. You might want to buy me a beer after I fix your computer and help you move a couch.
And maybe, you might get my joke.
All the love.
Apologies, I’m going to do something that I think is kind of a jerk move and paste my standard argument for a very specific point. It’s a jerk move because I see that you wrote a genuine reply and I appreciate that. I don’t know enough about the specific points that you raised to discuss them directly, so I’m falling back on my broader thinking. To that end, I’m truly trying to contribute to the discussion (even though I’m pasting a repeated(-by-me) blurb; see my sibling post; I’m pretty into this topic). I respect your views even if we disagree, so long as you don’t try to impose them on others, which I’m not saying you do / did.
Jesus is an ahistorical figure who was originally crucified in the firmament above the earth. Notice no mention of an earthly ministry in the Pauline epistles; Paul is arguing for salvation from a heavenly figure. In his letters, Jesus is still to be revealed, rather than returning. Only decades later did the stories about a human man get written.
The Didache was most likely part of the letter written by the “pillars in Jerusalem” (James the Just, Peter, and John) after their meeting with Paul. This was the meeting to discuss the matter of preaching to gentiles and whether circumcision ought to be required for christian converts. It contains many of the tenets later ascribed to Jesus, but doesn’t associate him with teaching them.
The reason the earthly story was embraced by the church was to stop people like Paul from having visions of Christ that the church couldn’t control. By pointing to a real guy on earth, they could control the message. Otherwise, any yokel on the street could teach that Jesus revealed new teachings and the church risked being undermined.
Marcion was probably the first to create a collection of writings associated with christianity: he collected some of Paul’s letters and had his own gospel. It was thought that he had a shortened version of Luke (as testified by Eusebius and Tertullian). Marcion, however, claimed that his gospel had been “judaized”; this suggests that his shorter version was the original gospel before others modified it.
Acts was written as a direct response to Marcion’s scripture. It was written to harmonize Paul’s high-jacking of the religion by making he and Peter appear to be in alignment when actually he was at odds with the leaders in Jerusalem.
The Jerusalem pillars (James, Peter, John), were strict adherents of Judaism, whereas Paul taught that Jesus made the Law / Torah unnecessary. They were almost certainly Essenes, one of the three flavors of Judaism at the time (the other two were the Pharisees and Sadducees mentioned in the new testament). John the Baptist was clearly also an Essene. He’s said to wear camel’s hair with a leather belt around his waist and ate locusts and honey. His practice of baptism also aligns with daily ritual water immersion believed to be a core practice of the Essenes.
This is a very long way of saying that Jesus first appeared in visions and spoke to the early leaders without walking on earth. It’s a fringe belief about which I was quite skeptical, but damn if the evidence doesn’t line up. See Robert Price, Earl Doherty, and Elbe Spurling for more info. Elbe’s online book is free and contains a huge amount of historical information about the region at the.
Jesus was crucified here on Earth, and his crime was pissing off Pontius Pilate. He would help people without going through the proper channels.
The religious leaders were getting kick backs from the Roman Empire, as they were taxing the people for religious reassurance. Jesus was doing it for free.
His disciples didn’t understand what he was doing, because Simon wanted a cult. The other Simon and Judas were picking up what he was throwing down.
He then told Judas to identify him to lead by example and show the harsh brutality of their governance.
And Jesus didn’t “live without sin”. He stole a donkey just to ride it into town, just for a performance act which he was tried for, because he was claiming himself King of the Jews.
I don’t see him as being fictional. Ahistorical I can concede, as he wasn’t literally born during Yule. And that is another fun topic I can delve into.
However, he reminds me of Abbie Hoffman.
Anyhow, while his records are muffed, he was a living human who said a lot of things you can catch in the Vulgate, which includes proof that the Jews didn’t free a murderer and condemn Jesus. Barabbas means son of God, while Christos is King of the Jews.
In the Vulgate, it makes it clear. Jesus went before two judges. “Are you the son of God?” and “Are you the king of the Jews?”
“If you say so.” The vulgate also reveals that Barrabas had a first name: Jesus.
So to appeal to the Jewish populace, as they could see that their tyranny was causing insurrection, certainly amplified by Jesus, they gave a tricky deal:
We will free a prisoner. This man who claims he is your messiah! Or this man who claims he is the son of God.
“Free the Son of God.”
Well, you said it. Don’t blame us. It is your fault.
And that’s why Jesus was put on display with the sign that says, “Here lies the King of the Jews.”
Now, I realize you are saying his existence is fictional. I don’t care. I love the story. Some people really get into Warhammer lore. And the same with Star Wars: just because it got retconned all to shit doesn’t mean Episode 4 didn’t kick ass.
So Christians don’t know jack shit either since every historical fact is lost in translation or just corrupted and misconstrued for a personal agenda.
The “Christians” who didn’t study the Bible don’t follow the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus was punk rock and worthy of study. Buddhism fell in the same hole.
You are buying into and, sure, trying your best to reject the propaganda. But you are buying into the “official story” just the same as the “Christians” you disdain.
Study the Bible, and then when some evangelical asshole wants to tell them that you will burn in eternity in Hell, you can correct them: Hell is simply destruction, literally what atheists consider death to be.
But Jesus was way cool, and not as magical as the GOVERNMENTS that killed him for insurrection want us to believe.
So how can one study the true Bible where to find a faithful translation
Study it and cross reference the translations, and you will find the point being made.
I know, it takes time, and this thread makes me want to just write a book that summarizes the Bible, like it is Harry Potter, but of course citing sources.
God damn, I need to attend your lecture. You know so much that I don’t.
Ask away, my man. Look at the rest of the thread because some of us are having some deep dives into the topic.
In regards to the 12 year old boy, the people were complaining about hunger. Jesus gave a sermon saying we should share food.
The 12 year old offered 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread, which was his paycheck, to a disciple. The disciple asked Jesus, “Wtf am I supposed to do with this?”
“Disperse it.”
5000 men, meaning 5000 families as children and women were being counted, ran to their pantries, inspired by the boy, to grab what they could find. Shit that was just sitting on the shelves that they didn’t have the rest of the ingredients to actually use it.
It is a story of an impromptu potluck. The magic was only the words of Jesus and the generosity of that 12 year old boy.
And everyone was fucking fed. That’s properly administrated socialism. Love your neighbor. Government doesn’t even need to be involved.
What do you think about the resurrection of Lazarus?
What do you think about CPR?
I’d think survival would be inconsistent with the amount of time Lazarus was “dead”/needed cpr.
I lean more towards Lazarus being misdiagnosed as dead and Jesus giving Lazarus the ol’ sternum tap to wake him up.
I can agree with that.
Look, I am saying that I agree with what Jesus taught, no question. But I don’t think he was a magic zombie man.
And I do believe in God/Godhead, and I am not a hard physicalist.
The miracle of Jesus is mostly that he helped people without asking for money, which the pharisees and sadducees were doing by order of the Roman empire, while additionally refusing to assist gentiles.
And the J-Sauce was like, “fuck this stupid shit. And fuck the Romans and their self-perceived authority to deny the basic commandment: Love thy neighbor.”
Jesus was punk as fuck. He refused to stand down, the Romans tried to twist the narrative so that his own supporters would be blamed, and made an example of.
But that holy spirit should die. Hence, fuck ICE. I will happily die to defend my neighbor, without using any force. Just an example.
But if you strike me first, well, I will take action to stop you from doing it again. Pacifism is not submission.
Very interesting, thankyou
*weren’t counted. 5000 families held an impromptu potluck.