• Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de
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    2 days ago

    What prevents you from voting and rioting at the same time?

    There is absolutely no reason to not vote.

  • menas@lemmy.wtf
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    3 days ago

    Unfortunately, pedophiles (“misopede”) of the bourgeoisie are well defended in France too. Brigitte Macron, Polanski, Depardieu, … It need big mobilization to trial to be made, and even more for the crime to be acknowledge. Their is still no trial for Epstein accomplices

  • GaryGhost@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I think the main difference is that American police will kill people. Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t know anything about French police but my impression of European police is that they have less guns and trained not to kill?

    I’m not saying I’m right, it’s just a hunch. Rioting in the USA could put you in prison, life crippling fines, maimed or death. In ratio we imprison the most people in the world and our prisons are notriously inhumane. If you don’t go to prison then the fines and medical bills will cripple a person.

    We have instances of protestors sitting on the ground in unison while getting pepper sprayed to the face or even burned with hot gas canisters. Even when our police use rubber bullets they aim for the face. I think the usa is more fascist than france and that makes it very difficult to fight back.

    The only way I’d riot is if I was willing to endure our screwed up legal system. Rioters are usually labeled as violent antifa gang members and treated like enemies of the state.

    If those same people were waving the red white and blue and threatening to pillage the capitol, that’s cool.

  • Sanctus@anarchist.nexus
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    3 days ago

    If you aren’t voting AND burning down government buildings you are leaving levers of power unpulled. Pull them all.

  • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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    3 days ago

    Make sure you give democrat politicians your assurance that you will vote for them no matter what their policies are, giving them literally no reason to appeal to you at all

    • PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      Def get that frustration, Dems are not here to help us or anyone but the rich.

      However - rather than not vote, go vote 3rd party. If voting is low effort for you (it isn’t always…), that’s a tiny but legible stamp of “nah fuck this”.

      Whereas non-voting in the US is only seen by the powers that be as “guess they’re fine with either of us lmao, must not be too unhappy, hell yeah, may the great grift roll on!”

      Send the signals ya mean, folks. Silence is not a signal.

    • nosuchanon@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Part of the problem with the Democrats is their infighting. Even if a Democratic candidate appeals to you and you like his policies, most of the time it doesn’t mean his policies are going to get passed or even introduced to get voted on.

      The one thing Republican party has is its members solidarity and consistently voting as a block the last 30 years.

      The main difference between the two parties is one is run on feelings and no policy and the other runs on watered-down corporate policy passed along as the status quo.

      Both parties produce poor quality legislation for the country that is deliberately flawed in slightly different ways.

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlM
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        3 days ago

        Leftists aren’t liberals, it’s not “infighting” because, as much as you insist, we aren’t DNC vassals

        • nosuchanon@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          Your comment makes no sense. When did I mention anything about leftists or liberals? What do you even mean about “we’re not assails of the DNC”. What does that have to do with the fact that Democrats have a hard time getting elected because of their shit policies and fighting on which policy is the right way to go forward.

  • lobut@lemmy.ca
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    4 days ago

    They should still vote. Not sure why that’s off the table entirely.

    • Comrade_Squid@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      Votings worked out great so far… Price of freedom I guess 😂. We should vote for whatever party represents our class interests but don’t get illusions, we were given ‘democracy’ to stop revolution and the only true path to democracy is a workers revolution to bring about Democratic workers control of our economy.

      Essentially, mainstream politics use voting to limit us, we post our ballot and that’s that, the ruling class can continue in which ever form they take, whether Democrat or Republican but the power still sits with the same class, in my case, Tory, Labour, Green, or Reform. Tory’s did a shit show for 14 years, then labour came in, and we see no stop to austerity, we see the same allegiance with Israel. Our voting the ‘left’ did little, we must play an active role in fighting for our class interests.

    • Skeezix@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      The meme is wrong. Instead of “: vote” it should say “: do nothing “

          • KindnessisPunk@piefed.ca
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            3 days ago

            Yes it is, I have had an argument several times with .ml folks who articulated that voting legitimised the system making you culpable for its shortcomings.

            Very common around election season, I think the first time I heard it was actually last midterm in 2022.

            Hell there are 3 comments on this post saying don’t vote. There’s no ambiguity they aren’t saying voting isn’t enough, in no uncertain terms they are saying don’t vote.

            Is there an argument to be made that the ratcheting mechanisms of FPTP skew the results towards the lesser of two evils? Absolutely, especially at the presidential level.

            Where that is less true is the midterms and municipal elections. We’ve seen proof that we can have real progressives like Mamdani and we need even more like Abdul El-Sayed. Progressive policy is popular and any movement needs allies.

            I’m not saying don’t protest, I’m not even going to say do it peacefully but voting still has it’s place.

              • KindnessisPunk@piefed.ca
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                3 days ago

                No, thank you, you are very capable of reading through this very low comment post to find them. I’m not going to litigate reality with you.

                • SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works
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                  3 days ago

                  Yes, but I don’t know which ones you’re referring to so in order to have a productive conversation I need to know specifically what you’re referring to.

                  This is not the first time I’ve seen this conversation play out like this.

                  Liberal: Leftists believes crazy thing!

                  Leftist: Can you give us examples of “crazy thing”?

                  Liberals: No, I cannot.

                  Or in the rare instance where the liberal does actually cite a source, the source isn’t saying what the liberal is saying they said.

                  I will continue to believing this is self-soothing delusion by liberals until they can provide some evidence for their claims.

                  Like, What you’re saying is so grossly untrue you don’t even want to take an opportunity to cherry pick someone saying something not broadly supported by leftists?

  • katy ✨@piefed.blahaj.zone
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    4 days ago

    i mean that kinda ignores what la, minnesota, new york, etc did earlier this year… especially considering people were murdered by ice because of it.

      • Kaligalis@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        Good propaganda is. The recipe is to use some facts and add a cause, derive a conclusion, exaggerate the fact, mention other facts irrelevant in the context but implying something in combination…
        Just lying gets you the people already in you camp. The others don’t have a reason to believe you. But if you add some facts, the lies become easier to believe if the person doesn’t already know better.

        • Hobo@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          You’re right! Should’ve put “necessarily” based on facts. At the very least that propaganda distorts facts. Basically propaganda doesn’t really care about being factual and will go out of its way to ignore inconvenient facts.

          • LocalAreaMan@lemmy.ml
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            3 days ago

            It wasn’t always a meaningless pejorative. McCarthyism did that, which is still going on.

            Putin has become our “Emanuel Goldstein” foreign boogieman for everything the Epstein Class has done to us.

            • Hobo@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              It wasn’t always a meaningless pejorative. McCarthyism did that, which is still going on.

              Did you fail history class like super bad or something? There’s been propaganda from literally every country for basically all written history, and people have been calling it for just as long.

              • LocalAreaMan@lemmy.ml
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                3 days ago

                I am not only versed in history, but capable of the most cursory internet searches.

                Per wikipedia “The meaning of propaganda changed from a neutral term for spreading ideas to a heavily negative label for manipulation and deception during World War I and World War II.”

                Wear your dunce cap with shame, Professor Numbnuts.

                • Hobo@lemmy.world
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                  3 days ago

                  You have to link sources ya screwball. It’s funny you didn’t and I think you know why you didn’t link it. It may have something to do with the propaganda you’re spewing:

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

                  The term is essentially contested and some have argued for a neutral definition,[54][55]: 9  arguing that ethics depend on intent and context,[55] while others define it as necessarily unethical and negative.[56] Emma Briant defines it as “the deliberate manipulation of representations (including text, pictures, video, speech etc.) with the intention of producing any effect in the audience (e.g. action or inaction; reinforcement or transformation of feelings, ideas, attitudes, or behaviours) that is desired by the propagandist.”

                  Propaganda has existed since the beginning of recorded history. In the New Kingdom of Egypt, the state utilized a “Clean Victory”[failed verification] ideology to prioritize the preservation of Maat (cosmic order) over factual military reporting.[21] Temple reliefs sanitized warfare by omitting violence against non-combatants,[22] portraying the Pharaoh as a disciplined protector rather than a chaotic aggressor.[23][unreliable source?] This was exemplified by Ramesses II, who reframed the Battle of Kadesh, a stalemate, as a divine personal victory.[24] To visually reinforce this authority, artists used hierarchical scaling to depict the king as a giant among men,[25] utilizing motifs like the “smiting of the enemy” to symbolize the Pharaoh’s triumph over chaos.

                  According to Harold Lasswell, the term began to fall out of favor due to growing public suspicion of propaganda in the wake of its use during World War I by the Creel Committee in the United States and the Ministry of Information in Britain: Writing in 1928, Lasswell observed, "In democratic countries the official propaganda bureau was looked upon with genuine alarm, for fear that it might be suborned to party and personal ends. The outcry in the United States against Mr. Creel’s famous Bureau of Public Information (or ‘Inflammation’) helped to din into the public mind the fact that propaganda existed.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

                  McCarthyism is a political practice defined by the accusation and investigation of left-wing individuals of communist and Soviet influence on American institutions and of Soviet espionage in the United States during the late 1940s through the 1950s, heavily associated with the McCarthy era.[1] After the mid-1950s, U.S. senator Joseph McCarthy, who had spearheaded the campaign, gradually lost his public popularity after several of his accusations were found to be false.

                  McCarthy was a huge asshole, and caused immense harm. However, claiming he’s the reason there was a negative connotations with the word, then saying it happened during WWI and WWII, and then only viewing it from the incredibly modern western centric view is incredibly dishonest.

      • psycholocomotor_no2@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        3 days ago

        Um, actually, propaganda can technically be in the presentation of true facts. It can also be a promotion of a certain philosophy that interprets those facts in different ways.

      • o1011o@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        You can’t judge the effectiveness of any action only by its immediate measurable effects. The working class of the US is in a long period of finding their courage and strength and solidarity after decades of propaganda hid it from them. Every peaceful protest encourages bigger peaceful protests and they encourage more disruptive protests. Every protest that gets tear gassed all to hell by the police pisses people off more and encourages more and bigger and even more disruptive protests.

        I hate how slow this is all going too and I have been ready for and advocating for direct action for a long fucking time now. I have taken direct action when the scale is small enough that I can do it alone. It takes time to rouse a population and it is embarrassing to our country that it’s taking so long but it is absolute bullshit to say that what we’ve done has been ‘nothing effective’. Class consciousness is higher than I’ve ever seen it in my lifetime and it’s only growing. The amount of people ready for direct action and the amount of groups organizing is greater than I have ever seen it. That’s all progress. It’s happening. Instead of being a doomer go out and organize and you’ll see what is growing.

      • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        And the riots in France are effective? All it has done is create campaign material for Le Pen’s political ads for the presidential election next April. These Nazi are already spinning it as a migrant problem. Le Pen will certainly win now as she surges in popularity.

        • LocalAreaMan@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          Same thing happened in Germany when they let bankers run the country, same thing happening in ALL of Europe now.

          When you make grassroots socialist populism impossible you make faux-populist fascism inevitable.

  • Formfiller@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    BS we had riots with BLM. They are putting up mass surveillance because they know that it’s coming again. “A riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?” - MLK

  • Absurdly Stupid @lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    There’s no anti-pedophile or anti-Israel party in the USA, unfortunately.

    Our voting options are limited to exclusively pro-Israel Epstein billionaire buddies. Remember, Israel is USA’s 51st state, and has been since we created it after WWII.

    Our government is 100% committed to maintaining this base of operations in the middle east. It’s not just another country, it’s our baby.

    Regarding pedophilia, it sure would be nice to open those Epstein files, eh? Biden and Trump don’t agree on much, but for some mysterious reason they both agree that Epstein is their little secret.

  • teslasaur@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Also, America when riot.

    “This is the socialist, communist antisocial fuckwads destroying public property”

    This kind of generalisation DIDN’T use to happen in Europe. But this time, the trumpism has spread.

  • Absurdly Stupid @lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    France is smaller than Texas with 4x the population density.

    So… why you think the USA can match that as a nation is beyond me.

    Large US cities were just burned down to the ground a few years ago, I’ve been told. You’ll get more riots soon enough, they’re not rare in the USA