Even if its western organizations, if they’re asking current citizens of the country who are residing in that country i would say their responses would still be limited by that country’s freedom of speech.
Also, how exactly do they differentiate regular citizens from those other groups you mentioned? Do they have a strict line between “citizen” and “celebrity”? Because if I was an authoritarian and someone was saying something online that I didn’t want spreading, as soon as they got any traction or platform online (so, the moment that speech starts to actually make a difference) I would label them a “celebrity” and take away their freedom of speech.
Not to mention the speech of regular citizens is absolutely controlled, with social media sites having blacklists on topics and words, for example.
I also doubt that there is any line between “private media” and “private media that is controlled,” and I will always argue that a free press is an absolute necessity for freedom of speech because control over the information citizens receive is a form of control over their thoughts.
On a final note. I wonder if the chart above contained the opinions of any Uyghurs in western China? And would the rest of the country believe so thoroughly that the rights of all were protected if media was allowed to report on what’s happening there?
You have an extremely simplistic and confused understanding of the PRC, and non-western politics in general. I’m not saying this to be mean, I mean this to be an encouragement to not simply buy the western viewpoint whole-cloth without doing your due dilligence.
There isn’t a “celebrity detector.” Put simply, if those with influence mouth off, they are usually punished, be they corrupt party members that are then purged, or wealthy capitalists like Jack Ma that wish to undermine the socialist system. State control of media is one of the demands listed right in the manifesto of the Communist Party as outlined by Marx and Engels, because if the state does not have control, then private capitalists have free reign. Non-state media is not “more free,” just under control of capitalists.
Secondly, nobody is categorically an “authoritarian.” Authority is a tool used by every state, what matters is which class the state is an extension of. In the west, that class is the capitalist class, in the PRC, it’s the proletariat.
Thirdly, the CPC is not “controlling the thoughts” of Chinese citizens. VPNs are widespread, and Chinese citizens are not stupid. They support socialism because it works to dramatically uplift their lives, they’ve lived it.
So, exactly as I thought, if someone “has influence” (read: their speech is reaching people) then their speech is limited. That sounds to me like speech is only free if it’s fairly private, and as soon as it has any influence it can be shut down, which is not in any form actually free speech, sorry.
Also, to be clear about something - I am not against socialism. I am not the kind of American who thinks that China bad because they’re communist/socialist. I am, however, a believer in democracy, a defender of free speech, and against the idea of a surveillance state regardless of whether its capitalist or socialist or whatever else.
Do you not see the blindingly obvious conflict of interest of reporting on allegations of genocide and human rights abuses from a media controlled by the state those allegations are levied against? Should I go ask the IDF what’s happening in Gaza next, and just start spreading that around as what’s “really happening?”
I’ll still give it a read because I want to be well informed but I’m not going to put much faith in that article’s ability to be truthful given its source. If you want to convince me, give me independent media.
Again, you’re deeply confused. I gave you independent media, Qiao Collective is western independent media made up of those supportive to the PRC.
Secondly, again, you are merely gesturing at the possibility of overreach while erasing that the people of China support their system and are happy with the level at which speech of capitalists is curtailed. Influencial speech is absolutely allowed, and people are more politically engaged than in the US. You have this weird misconception of a dystopian society that just doesn’t exist in reality, likely due to only consuming western media.
Apologies, I only saw the Qiao Collective described as a Chinese group, and thought that meant it was based in China, not just that it was made up of Chinese people. Still, they’re very clearly a media organization made with the intention of supporting the PRC, and I’ve found claims they receive significant funding from the PRC, which I don’t think makes them truly independent in the same way that the massive western media conglomerates are not truly independent because they must answer to their own capital interests. Point is, the conflict of interest is still very, very clear.
And no, I don’t view china as a dystopia, I recognize that there’s a lot going right there and that the people are, for the most part, doing fairly well. But conversely I don’t view it as a communist utopia, it has genuine issues with surveillance, freedom of speech, and political persecution. And I haven’t even mentioned its own imperialist tendencies with Taiwan, a country in which the opinion of reunification is in the overwhelming minority. And the country’s massive participation in and influence from the global market makes me really doubt how free the country is of capital interests.
In my opinion, the idea that china is a utopia and the greatest country in the world is similarly naive to those who say the same about America.
It isn’t a “conflict of interest,” it is their interest. They are openly stating that Qiao Collective’s goal is to combat western misinformation and connect Chinese political commentary and perspective with a western audience. You’re the target demographic!
Secondly, nobody said China was a utopia. You’re putting words in everyone’s mouths with that one. I am defending the merits of the PRC and its socialist system, while stating that much of your criticism is ill-founded. That doesn’t mean they are perfect, they have a long way to go.
Finally, again, you’re claiming the people of China are oppressed with a lack of freedom of speech and political persecution, but what that translates to is you wish capitalists had free reign. I’ve already explained how the working class is in control, and their interests are supported.
Overall, you have a bunch of underlying assumptions and very little actual investigation. I am not trying to be rude or mean, I mean this purely as an attempt to get you to peak outside the western curtain.
Alright, I apologize for putting words in your mouth with the Chinese utopia thing, but you did the same to me, just to be clear.
As far as “conflict of interest” goes, I appreciate they are transparent in their interests, but what I mean by “conflict” is that if they have their interest is also to be fair and truthful (something I would hope is the case for any media) then they cant be fair and truthful about a conflict when their other interest is explicitly one side of that conflict. Again, I’m not dismissing the article as a whole but it’s very clearly one-sided.
From the resource you provided on Taiwan:
7.6% of respondents support some form of reunification
I don’t see how there is much conversation to be had beyond that. I don’t care that the majority of its population is ethnically Chinese, they don’t want to be part of the PRC. I recognize the American interests in keeping Taiwan independent and the problematic ties to the American military, but at the end of the day, if 92.4% of the population does not want to be a part of China then they should not be a part of China. And China, in wanting to control a foreign territory without the consent of its people, is imperialist in that regard. If the majority opinion of the people in Taiwan ever changes to be in favor of reunification, then I will change my mind on that matter.
Imperialism isn’t just “annexing territory.” China isn’t trying to aggressively invade Tawian, they are waiting for when Taiwan wants to be reunited, and they have good reason to believe they will eventually.
Well, as I said, if the people of Taiwan are ever willing to unify with the PRC then I will support it. But they don’t, they never have, and I see no reason to believe they ever will soon. China’s insistence that Taiwan is currently and always has been a part of China does not seem to me like waiting for consent of the people.
Even if its western organizations, if they’re asking current citizens of the country who are residing in that country i would say their responses would still be limited by that country’s freedom of speech.
Also, how exactly do they differentiate regular citizens from those other groups you mentioned? Do they have a strict line between “citizen” and “celebrity”? Because if I was an authoritarian and someone was saying something online that I didn’t want spreading, as soon as they got any traction or platform online (so, the moment that speech starts to actually make a difference) I would label them a “celebrity” and take away their freedom of speech.
Not to mention the speech of regular citizens is absolutely controlled, with social media sites having blacklists on topics and words, for example.
I also doubt that there is any line between “private media” and “private media that is controlled,” and I will always argue that a free press is an absolute necessity for freedom of speech because control over the information citizens receive is a form of control over their thoughts.
On a final note. I wonder if the chart above contained the opinions of any Uyghurs in western China? And would the rest of the country believe so thoroughly that the rights of all were protected if media was allowed to report on what’s happening there?
You have an extremely simplistic and confused understanding of the PRC, and non-western politics in general. I’m not saying this to be mean, I mean this to be an encouragement to not simply buy the western viewpoint whole-cloth without doing your due dilligence.
There isn’t a “celebrity detector.” Put simply, if those with influence mouth off, they are usually punished, be they corrupt party members that are then purged, or wealthy capitalists like Jack Ma that wish to undermine the socialist system. State control of media is one of the demands listed right in the manifesto of the Communist Party as outlined by Marx and Engels, because if the state does not have control, then private capitalists have free reign. Non-state media is not “more free,” just under control of capitalists.
Secondly, nobody is categorically an “authoritarian.” Authority is a tool used by every state, what matters is which class the state is an extension of. In the west, that class is the capitalist class, in the PRC, it’s the proletariat.
Thirdly, the CPC is not “controlling the thoughts” of Chinese citizens. VPNs are widespread, and Chinese citizens are not stupid. They support socialism because it works to dramatically uplift their lives, they’ve lived it.
Fourth, Chinese citizens know what’s going on in Xinjiang. I suspect you don’t, and suggest you read through Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation.
So, exactly as I thought, if someone “has influence” (read: their speech is reaching people) then their speech is limited. That sounds to me like speech is only free if it’s fairly private, and as soon as it has any influence it can be shut down, which is not in any form actually free speech, sorry.
Also, to be clear about something - I am not against socialism. I am not the kind of American who thinks that China bad because they’re communist/socialist. I am, however, a believer in democracy, a defender of free speech, and against the idea of a surveillance state regardless of whether its capitalist or socialist or whatever else.
Do you not see the blindingly obvious conflict of interest of reporting on allegations of genocide and human rights abuses from a media controlled by the state those allegations are levied against? Should I go ask the IDF what’s happening in Gaza next, and just start spreading that around as what’s “really happening?”
I’ll still give it a read because I want to be well informed but I’m not going to put much faith in that article’s ability to be truthful given its source. If you want to convince me, give me independent media.
Again, you’re deeply confused. I gave you independent media, Qiao Collective is western independent media made up of those supportive to the PRC.
Secondly, again, you are merely gesturing at the possibility of overreach while erasing that the people of China support their system and are happy with the level at which speech of capitalists is curtailed. Influencial speech is absolutely allowed, and people are more politically engaged than in the US. You have this weird misconception of a dystopian society that just doesn’t exist in reality, likely due to only consuming western media.
Apologies, I only saw the Qiao Collective described as a Chinese group, and thought that meant it was based in China, not just that it was made up of Chinese people. Still, they’re very clearly a media organization made with the intention of supporting the PRC, and I’ve found claims they receive significant funding from the PRC, which I don’t think makes them truly independent in the same way that the massive western media conglomerates are not truly independent because they must answer to their own capital interests. Point is, the conflict of interest is still very, very clear.
And no, I don’t view china as a dystopia, I recognize that there’s a lot going right there and that the people are, for the most part, doing fairly well. But conversely I don’t view it as a communist utopia, it has genuine issues with surveillance, freedom of speech, and political persecution. And I haven’t even mentioned its own imperialist tendencies with Taiwan, a country in which the opinion of reunification is in the overwhelming minority. And the country’s massive participation in and influence from the global market makes me really doubt how free the country is of capital interests.
In my opinion, the idea that china is a utopia and the greatest country in the world is similarly naive to those who say the same about America.
It isn’t a “conflict of interest,” it is their interest. They are openly stating that Qiao Collective’s goal is to combat western misinformation and connect Chinese political commentary and perspective with a western audience. You’re the target demographic!
Secondly, nobody said China was a utopia. You’re putting words in everyone’s mouths with that one. I am defending the merits of the PRC and its socialist system, while stating that much of your criticism is ill-founded. That doesn’t mean they are perfect, they have a long way to go.
Thirdly, you need to research Taiwan more. Qiao Collective also has a resource guide for it. China isn’t imperialist.
Finally, again, you’re claiming the people of China are oppressed with a lack of freedom of speech and political persecution, but what that translates to is you wish capitalists had free reign. I’ve already explained how the working class is in control, and their interests are supported.
Overall, you have a bunch of underlying assumptions and very little actual investigation. I am not trying to be rude or mean, I mean this purely as an attempt to get you to peak outside the western curtain.
Alright, I apologize for putting words in your mouth with the Chinese utopia thing, but you did the same to me, just to be clear.
As far as “conflict of interest” goes, I appreciate they are transparent in their interests, but what I mean by “conflict” is that if they have their interest is also to be fair and truthful (something I would hope is the case for any media) then they cant be fair and truthful about a conflict when their other interest is explicitly one side of that conflict. Again, I’m not dismissing the article as a whole but it’s very clearly one-sided.
From the resource you provided on Taiwan:
I don’t see how there is much conversation to be had beyond that. I don’t care that the majority of its population is ethnically Chinese, they don’t want to be part of the PRC. I recognize the American interests in keeping Taiwan independent and the problematic ties to the American military, but at the end of the day, if 92.4% of the population does not want to be a part of China then they should not be a part of China. And China, in wanting to control a foreign territory without the consent of its people, is imperialist in that regard. If the majority opinion of the people in Taiwan ever changes to be in favor of reunification, then I will change my mind on that matter.
Imperialism isn’t just “annexing territory.” China isn’t trying to aggressively invade Tawian, they are waiting for when Taiwan wants to be reunited, and they have good reason to believe they will eventually.
Well, as I said, if the people of Taiwan are ever willing to unify with the PRC then I will support it. But they don’t, they never have, and I see no reason to believe they ever will soon. China’s insistence that Taiwan is currently and always has been a part of China does not seem to me like waiting for consent of the people.