• statelesz@slrpnk.netEnglish
    21·
    3 hours ago

    I had Manjaro break more often in the year I’ve used it that Arch in the past 5…

  • sonofearth@lemmy.world
    172·
    7 hours ago

    Why don’t people just use Arch directly instead of using derivatives? Well… I can understand using something like CachyOS as it has a different kernel with optimisations but Manjaro feels very irrelevant. If you just want Arch Linux with simple installation, just use the archinstall script. Regardless of which derivative you use, Arch based distros are going to be heavy maintenance than something like Bazzite, Mint or Ubuntu.

    • herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml
      5·
      3 hours ago

      I used Manjaro for a few years before switching to Arch. Manjaro finds a nice sweespot for “Arch but also nice”. Furthermore, Arch has gotten much more user friendly in the last 5 years or so. Back in late 2010s, Manjaro was adding a lot of value on top of Arch.

      What really bothered me about Manjaro was the “forum cops” they employ, who are super aggressive to newcomers and unhelpful. It was not a nice experience to seek help. Say what you will about Arch people, they are at least helpful.

      I finally switched to Arch when I got my new machine. I recommend the same.

    • lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com
      2·
      5 hours ago

      My thinking process years ago was:

      I had Debian and was not satisfied with the fact that I had to wait ages for updates of stuff like KDE Plasma. I wanted something with shorter update intervals.

      I decided against Ubuntu because of the company behind it.

      I decided against Mint, because it’s on level 3 in the derivate tree, so more places where something can go wrong.

      Then I found Manjaro and liked it from the beginning. Very easy to install (no script necessary), awesome custom Plasma theme, short update intervals, …

      Arch can be scary. I wanted a reliable, easy OS for private use and I knew, I get that with Manjaro. With Arch, I was not sure whether I might FCK something up.

      • festnt@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        3 hours ago

        from what ive heard of manjaro, they do less testing on new packages than arch. also, nothing on arch ever broke my pc except for the clock, which was probably because i configured it wrong (didn’t use archinstall).

        only time an update has ever done anything bad was like a week ago when plasma 6.6 launched and the login freezed the pc, but that was on cachyos, not main arch.

        • sonofearth@lemmy.world
          1·
          1 hour ago

          Arch derivatives that don’t do anything to the core packages or the root system seem very pointless to me. Because you can setup Vanilla Arch to be exactly like that derivative if you wanted to since Arch being a DIY distro. Arch based derivatives create unnecessary fragmentation in already fragmented Linux world. Arch itself is targeted for intermediate to advanced users to build a system from base.

          It makes sense to make derivatives from Debian or Fedora because they have a lot of stuff packed in them for them to be user friendly and work out-of-the-box experience — then derivatives can add from or reduce from to make a distro designed for a specific use which can take much longer time than if the user did it by themselves since those parent distros are usually targeted for non tech enthusiasts.

          • MyNameIsRichard@lemmy.ml
            1·
            29 minutes ago

            Because you can setup Vanilla Arch to be exactly like that derivative

            There’s the difference, you don’t have to set the derivative up.

    • rhubarbe@tarte.nuage-libre.frFrançais
      2·
      6 hours ago

      Manjaro differs from Arch in terms of update cycles. They are not rolling like Arch but adhere to some monthly-ish release cycle. Which i love by the way.

      • sonofearth@lemmy.world
        4·
        5 hours ago

        Then why not just update vanilla Arch itself on a monthly basis? Or just use something like Fedora or Bazzite. Using Manjaro kinda defeats the whole purpose of using Arch Linux. It is like getting someone to select your custom PC parts and letting them build your PC. You technically still have a custom PC but is it really?

        • rhubarbe@tarte.nuage-libre.frFrançais
          1·
          5 hours ago

          Those cycles are meant for testing a coherent set of versions. If you update Arch on a monthly basis I’m not quite sure you got the same testing. I’ve been running Manjaro for 8 years now (laptop for business and family stuff) and I can’t remember any issue with it. I also have Endeavour and Debian on my desktop (gaming / casual) and server.

          • sonofearth@lemmy.world
            1·
            1 hour ago

            Yeah but Manjaro’s stable repo is around 2 weeks behind Arch’s. So basically any package in the AUR that has newer dependencies might not work well with packages from Manjaro’s repository. So basically you leave out Arch’s main feature half-broken. Thus, usually, people recommend to run pacman+flatpak instead of AUR. Vanilla Arch has worked flawlessly for me. Once an update borked my system but it took like 10mins to rollback and restore to a working snapshot with Timeshift. And has been running flawlessly since then.

            Arch is pretty rock stable when you have minimal packages and not the most bleeding edge hardware.

  • SavvyWolf@pawb.socialEnglish
    181·
    9 hours ago

    It’s still technically automaton if your workflow depends on people poking you when things break.

    • LurkingLuddite@piefed.socialEnglish
      432·
      18 hours ago

      Not just with their web hosting. I’ve had so many updates break random crap it’s not even funny. Recently, a random update I did not approve suddenly had kwallet not working. A core piece of a DE they provide a bundled version for. I had to start kwalletd myself every time I wanted to use it.

      It didn’t start that way on the fresh install. I didn’t do anything myself except reboot. Then suddenly my scripts that nab from the keystore are failing and asking me for passwords and what a mess.

      That’s just a more recent example. I remember having quite a few random issues on update in the past, though the only other one I explicitly remember is the DE suddenly failing to start. Like, at all. Luckily I had a recent timeshift backup saved elsewhere, restored, and ignored the update notifications for a long while…

        • Eldritch@piefed.worldEnglish
          17·
          14 hours ago

          The one thing manjaro had going for it was it was easy install arch. Now we have endeavor, garuda, cachy, and several other easy install arch. Including archinstall. Who all follow vanilla arch much closer, not introducing major breaking changes. There’s literally no good reason to still use manjaro.

          That said the servo aur is currently broken under catchy. Unable to update for the last couple of weeks. But that’s been my only hiccup. And a negligible one at that.

        • eli@lemmy.world
          4·
          10 hours ago

          I tried it out like 5 years ago. A month after using it a random update broke the DE.

          Right then and there I wrote off the whole distro and haven’t touched it since.

          I don’t know why people are even using it all these years later.

  • NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip
    104·
    20 hours ago

    Wow. How does this happen when letsencrypt exists? Or certbot?

    More importantly… How does this happen again?

      • CriticalMiss@lemmy.world
        2·
        5 hours ago

        I’m not aware of any web server that’s still maintained and has wide adoption (so no web servers written by a teenager in Haskell to just fuck around and figure out how web servers work) that doesn’t support the ACME protocol. I highly doubt Manjaro doesn’t use something mainline like nginx.

        The renew failing should’ve sent someone a warning that manual intervention is required. This happens from time to time but the fact this went longer than a few minutes unfortunately says a lot about the project.

      • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
        21·
        7 hours ago

        There is a significant amount of infrastructure that does not support cert bot out there.

        Skill issue

      • zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        181·
        18 hours ago

        Uhm. “A significant amount of infrastructure”? Uhhhm. Put a reverse proxy in front of your webserver? Problem solved? Or use log analyzers? With alerts?

        There is literally no excuse.

        • Kushan@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          9 hours ago

          I think he’s referring to certain enterprise switches and other networking gear that has basically zero support for automation.

          For me personally, I would be replacing that equipment but some businesses would rather pay a few hundred bucks every year + manpower to replace the certs than a few thousand once to replace the equipment.

          • cole@lemdro.idEnglish
            5·
            8 hours ago

            …you don’t need your networking gear to support this in any way

      • Ŝan • 𐑖ƨɤ@piefed.zipEnglish
        24·
        19 hours ago

        There is a significant amount of infrastructure that does not support cert bot out there.

        Example? I believe you, I just can’t imagine what would preclude a public-facing server from using Caddy or certbot. Certainly not for a project maintaining an Arch-derivative distribution.

        • lankydryness@lemmy.world
          11·
          19 hours ago

          I don’t have a concrete example but I’ve talked to an online friend who works in IT and he claims the majority of his work is just renewing and applying certificates. Now he made it sound like upper management wanted them to specifically use a certain certificate provider, and I don’t know their exact setup. I of course have mentioned certbot and letsecrypt to him but yea, he’s apparently constantly managing certs. Whether that’s due to lack of motivation to automate or upper managements dumb requests idk

          • RobotToaster@mander.xyz
            17·
            18 hours ago

            LetsEncrypt only does level one (domain validated certificates), it doesn’t offer organisation or extended validation.

            Basically they only prove you control example.com, they don’t prove you are example PLC.

          • Ŝan • 𐑖ƨɤ@piefed.zipEnglish
            43·
            12 hours ago

            Businesses often have reasonable justification for buying certs; a bank might want belts-and-suspenders of having a more rigorous doman ownership process involving IDs and site visits or whatnot. It’s a space where cert providers can add value. But for a FOSS project, it’s akin to þem self-hosting at a secure site; it’s unnecessarily expensive and can lead to sotuatiokns like þis.

      • NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip
        18·
        19 hours ago

        I am trying to figure out how my little non interesting domains have kept certified for decades now without lapsing, while they can’t seem to keep it together even after a failure.

        Hard to imagine that they are so big that people simply forgot to get notices or manage the certs after it has happened so many times before.

      • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
        71·
        19 hours ago

        There is a significant amount of infrastructure that does not support cert bot out there.

        Then there should be a significant amount of infrastructure behind something like caddy.

    • angel@sopuli.xyz
      49·
      18 hours ago

      At least the sixth time even. Four cases are documented here and another one was just three months ago. This last link points to reddit, but there a manjaro maintainer also explains why it keeps happening:

      Politics within the project are the issue.

      The fix for these issues have been build for about a year already. But those who have access to stuff like DNS and hosting are currently incapable of making any agreement on any topic preventing trivial fixes such as this from being implemented.