I might not be the best, but I can still do a better job than AI
yes. yes I can. been doing it for 25 years.
Whoever upvoted this needs to read some books.
Maybe the real slop was the code we wrote along the way
I mean, yes, absolutely I can. So can my peers. I’ve been doing this for a long, long time, as have my peers.
The code we produce is many times more readable and maintainable than anything an LLM can produce today.
That doesn’t mean LLMs are useless, and it also doesn’t mean that we’re irreplaceable. It just means this argument isn’t very effective.
If you’re comparing an LLM to a Junior developer? Then absolutely. Both produce about the same level of maintainable code.
But for Senior/Principal level engineers? I mean this without any humble bragging at all: but we run circles around LLMs from the optimization and maintainability standpoint, and it’s not even close.
This may change in the future, but today it is true (and I use all the latest Claude Code models)
The biggest problem with using AI instead of junior developers is that junior developers eventually become senior developers. LLMs … don’t.
They might, but it does not seem likely to me and is definitely not guaranteed.
sir, this is programmer_humor
😞 Sir this is a Wendy’s.
When that coworker tells you “hah you must have generated this” but you coded this yourself 👀
“You need to try your best” “This was my best…”
ITT:
I’m ass at coding and I still can, lmao
I could.
I choose not to! Take that, LLM!
Yes, and so can most experienced developers. In fact unmaintainable human-written code is more often caused by organisational dysfunctions than by lack of individual competence.
In my experience there’s usually a confluence of individual and institutional failures.
It usually goes like this.
- hotshot developers is hired at company with crappy software
- hotshot dev pitches a complete rewrite that will solve all issues
- complete rewrite is rejected
- hotshot dev shoehorns a new architecture and trendy dependencies into the old codebase
- hotshot new dev leaves
- software is more complex, inconsistent, and still crappy
That’s one of the failure modes, good orgs would have design and review processes to stop it.
There are other classics like arbitrary deadlines, conflicting and shifting requirements and product direction, perverse incentives, etc.
I would even say that the AI craze is a result of the latter.
Yeah, certain code developed organically (aka shifting demands). Devs know the code gets worse, but either by time or money they don’t have the option to review and redo code.
More maintainable that whatever shit it put out
Frankly I believe it can be maintainable if the person doing the prompting actually does something and correctly do their role of human reviewing and correcting. Vibe coding without any review is dooming the software maintainability
In my experience, the biggest problem is that maintainable code necessarily requires extending/adapting existing structures rather than just slapping a feature onto the side.
And if we’re not just talking boilerplate, then this necessarily requires understanding the existing logic, which problems it solves, and how you can mold it to continue to solve those problems, while also solving the new problem.
For that, you can’t just review the code afterwards. You have to do the understanding yourself.
And once you have a clear understanding, it’s likely that the actual code change is rather trivial. At least more trivial than trying to convey your precise understanding to an LLM/intern/etc…I’ll use an LLM to write bulk code, unit tests, other boring stuff… but, I specifically only have it write code I’m already very familiar with, and even then, I hand-code it every so often, like 1 in every 3 times I’ll do it by hand to make sure I’m still able to. If I have to look something up, then I’ll stop using an LLM for that task for a long while.
Yeah, a lot of maintainability is about understanding how it works. Architectural decisions are the other half. Someone who’s paying attention can do well on both of these even using AI tools.
ITT: AI induced dunning-kruger. Everybody can write maintenable code, just somehow it happens that nobody does.
It really depends on the situation. Can I write maintainable code? Yes, to the extent that the average senior dev can.
But that isn’t the same as being afforded the chance to write maintainable code. I’ve been part of teams where the timeline is so tight that technical debt is just a thing that builds up to be dealt with “later” and more stress is put on getting things done instead of keeping things maintainable.
The fact of the matter is that humans can while LLMs currently can’t.
On top of that, a human dev is going to be able to understand context a hell of a lot easier if they’ve previously worked on it, even if the code is less maintainable.
Well, I interpret the question as “can you write maintenable code under typical corporate conditions and timelines”. Very few can, but I’ve seen them.
Most of the unmaintainable code I’ve seen is because businesses don’t appreciate the need to occasionally refactor/rewrite or do anything to maintain code. They only appreciate piling more on. They’d do away with bug fixing too if they could.
This 100%
This is why AI coding is being pushed so hard. Guess what’s great at piling on at 30x speed? If piling on is all companies appreciate then that’s what they’ll demand.
My company is totally like this. If you don’t write a shiny new feature immediately, you don’t last.
Many opensource projects are in same state, I know for sure my projects become spaghetti if I work more than a year on them.
Besides, I’d argue that if you need to rewrite (part of) it is because it wasn’t maintainable in the first place.
I disagree. Rewriting is a core component of maintaining a code base. It’s the evolution of code. Not rewriting and hooking in some janky way is much worse. No one can see all the possible needs of code the first time they write it. Or even the tenth. Updating the code by rewriting sections is the healthier way to use everything you learned since the first time you wrote it to keep it clean and improve it.
Well, if rewriting is maintaining, everybody can write maintenable code.
Did it become a mess? Rewrite time!
For me the art is writing it so you don’t need to rewrite and you don’t need a janky temporary permanent workaround if requirements change. Clean interfaces, SOLID, plug-ins, etc. Can’t do it myself, but the legendary 10x devs usually do.
The most maintainable code is built to be replaced with minimal impact.
How much of the program will must be replaced if you remove one module? If you need to replace the entire program, then your program is not maintainable. Too much is heavily dependent on this module.
I don’t believe in code that never needs a rewrite, but scalable code should be compartmentalized and future-proofed to the point that the next rewrite can be pushed as far into the future as possible. Me personally, I tend to discover what these best practices are during those rewrites.
All code is maintainable with enough time and money.
But yes, well structured code where those rewrites are minimal is the goal.
There probably is a threshold where the amount you have to rewrite becomes too high. But with each rewrite, hopefully the next time you have a section you need to redo its smaller that before. Eventually going from rewriting a couple thousands of lines to just a hundred or so on the 5th iteration.
Can I, sure. Do I give af since my company doesn’t care about me as anything other than a number in a spreadsheet, no.
Well, even for my private projects that I care about I end up having to rewrite every few years.
That’s just the norm tbh. You learn new techniques, the language gets new optimizations, keywords and shortcuts. That doesn’t mean your code is unmaintainable.
I rewrite it because it becomes a mess of asymmetric assumptions, weird dependencies and hacky extensions, I can’t really blame the language for that one.
Pretty sure I can, considering I’m still maintaining a project I originally started in 2009, which is a core component of my email service.
Please tell me the software patent in that project is copylefted
The one in Port87 is the only patent I have, and it is not copyleft. I have tons of open source code that I could have patented, including in Nymph, but didn’t. Now that prior art exists and is in the market, those things can’t be patented.
There’s very little reason to seek a patent except to offer the product for sale in the market. It’s wildly time consuming and expensive. Mine cost me about $17k and took me three years to get. And I’m not a big company with mountains of cash and lawyers on the payroll. I patented it so that Microsoft, Google, etc. couldn’t just see my idea and be like, “that’s good, let’s take it”. That would kill my business. Copylefting the patent would allow them to do that.
Its Apache 2.0
Port87 is not Apache 2.0. There are no patents that cover Nymph.js, which is the one that’s Apache 2.0.
Yes. That’s literally the first point in my job description.
Yes.
