Either in regards to the current political situation, or for other reasons. What drew you to the idea of living in another country? Do you think whatever benefits it offers are really worth it, or is the grass just greener on the other side of the fence?
The problem is that the same forces that affect the US seem to affect everywhere. Look at the UK, even with their supposedly “center left” government they’ve lost arguably more freedom than the US in the form of the draconian KOSA, and will probably have a rightwing government next. The EU is trying to implement chat control. It unfortunately seems like authoritarianism all the way down, so I’ll just stay in the US and fight for liberty and justice for all.
Hey, i have “reduced motion” setting on! And if anyone with epilepsy sees that…
I just moved from the US to a small European country and it’s much more of a mixed bag than you could imagine.
I don’t want to dox myself too much, but I moved from a very tech-centric city to a smaller nation that’s not going to be one of your 1st or probably even 2nd guesses.
I didn’t move due to politics, although I’d be lying if I said they didn’t have an iron grip on my thoughts as I spent too much time unemployed. It was the tech industry that did me in. I had spent the past decade clawing my career out of the gutter only to have it slam-dunked right into the dumpster by a bunch of gormless tech CEOs who don’t see the value in anything. I would’ve happily stayed and voted, fought and gone down with the whole fascist ship to protect my trans, queer, and minority friends. But I seriously doubted my ability to continue to support myself in that environment, nevermind anyone else.
Maybe these are all just excuses, but when it came time to consider relocating, tearing myself out by the roots and losing all my friends and connections for the sake of finding someplace new I could afford to support myself, I cast a wider net than all that. There was no place in the US I wanted to be more, so I looked further.
And still the opportunities came up short. Everywhere is hurting. I took my modest savings and started a college program. It was an “easier” foot in the door and a chance to upskill myself and hopefully compete better in the market (so I hope, so I tell myself). I cannot stress how difficult and expensive every step of this process has been.
You can tell yourself it doesn’t matter, but for as long as I live I’ll never outrun the guilt or shame for what ultimately feels like a very selfish action. My therapist says I need to treat this as a reward for positioning myself in a way so as to even be able to take advantage of an opportunity like this, but that really sugarcoats it. There’s no even guaranteeing this will pay off. There’s no guarantee I eventually find a job or stay here, I may well end up back in the States, only this time without any of the possessions I gave up to get here.
You can’t take stuff. I mean not unless you’re RICH. It’s just costly and takes so much time and effort. Are you going to pay to keep it in storage while you’re gone? With the intent that you might never be back? Shipping things over is subject to so much regulation, I couldn’t even take my computer with me, they turned it down at the airport and I had to send it home with family. Maybe they’ll be able to ship it for me some day. In the end I was giving things away, throwing the last bits of my life into the dumpster just to be able to close out the apartment.
So much paperwork. ALL OF THE PAPERWORK! And so little guidance and no guarantees. I’m still waiting on things to be finalized and while there’s no reason they shouldn’t be, that uncertainty hangs over my head like a knife. Living on savings for now and they’ll hold awhile, but inflation has hit here pretty hard, too. Everything is expensive. And now I’m so much farther away from any support systems I may have had.
I don’t want to sound too thankless, this has been a wonderful opportunity. I love getting to see a new country and acclimate to a new culture. My head is a bit clearer without having all the politics cluttering it up but I assure you watching things from afar while I still have so many friends and family affected is no comfort at all.
It’s not an easy out. It’s not a golden ticket. For a lot of people it’s just not an option at all. I’ll die furious at what they’ve done to me, to my life, to my friends and everyone I love, to my country. Best I can hope for is some day I have more to bring home for the fight …
Nope. Gonna fight it out here.
I’ve been living in Canada for a year now (grad school). Going to hope and work hard to see if engineering can pan out over here.
Canada cause it’s close. Netherlands cause of DAFT and bike infrastructure would be so nice
Norway or Sweden, but apparently I’m one generation away from being able to do so.
My fiancée lives in the US, and we’re in the process of getting her a visa to get her the fuck out of that backwards shit hole
It’s not a case of “the grass is greener”, the US is a fucking joke
It’s a cruel country. I’ve never seen a place so full of hatred and fear
Overall that’s totally fair, but to add some nuisance, it very much depends on where in the US you are
I agree, but the states that aren’t complete backwaters are being specifically targeted by Cheeto, and outside the the major centres, even California is full of complete fucking idiots
You can be wealthy, and live in the most progressive part of 'Murica and still be ruined by a bit of bad luck
I would but I am 63, retired, and have 4 cats. My pension is tied to the state and my SS is tied to the USA. I am fucking stuck.
You can still collect you pension and SS even if you are abroad! Some places even have ‘retirement visas’. 4 cats is tough for a big move, though, for sure.
Fuck
I don’t wish to but I’ve thought about it, mainly as an emergency exit in case I get targeted by state violence. But barring that I don’t plan to leave.
Unfortunately, I’m as home grown as they come so I don’t have any other citizenship I would qualify for. And with the level of anti-immigrant sentiment happening in most of the world right now, nowhere seems like a great option. But I’ll do what I have to do if the time comes.
For now, I’d rather keep resisting tyranny here though.
I personally like the culture of my community and am very happy here. If only the thugs would leave us alone things would be great. So having to learn another culture and possibly language to assimilate into doesn’t sound very appealing. I have lived abroad before and it’s harder than I thought it would be.
But I’ll do what I have to do if the time comes.
I may already be too late, depending on how much time it actually takes to secure an opportunity for immigration. e.g. do you even have a passport? Do you belong to one of the groups the government might start targeting? In my mind, it’s clear the trump regime is going to start locking its people in, it’s really common for dictatorships.
EU passport seems like a good option.
Trouble is trying to find a job with transferable skills, being willing to pick up all my roots and move, and fitting into a community that speaks a different language, and ‘jealous passport’ countries that ask you to give up your US citizenship when you claim the new one.
Wish it was easier.
I did moved away from the states a long time ago, for reasons other then political fear. I mean I was afraid of what the US was turning in to but not like it is today. Finding a way to immigrate is a lot harder then it looks, but the EU isn’t the only option. The second part is a lot harder then it sound and it some ways easier. Picking up a second language is easier in a country where everyone is already using it. The hardest part is getting most people to stop trying to practice their English on you and to let you practice you new language on them. And the fitting in isn’t that hard if you are honestly excited about it. Don’t grumble because this isn’t the way you’re used to doing it think of it as new chance to be part of the lucky 10,000 almost every day. But picking up your roots is harder then you think everyday I’m haunted by the fact I’ll never see my old friends and my family again except through a tiny screen, never hug them, never cry on their shoulder, hell never even have them understand what my day was like because they don’t understand all the cultural clues I do. I’ve lost frames of reference to my family and it’s not something I really expected or would have been able to understand if did. It’s weird / hard to have cultural gulfs between you and your family not to have a shared pool of reference.
I wish it was easier too, but I’m glad I did it every day.
Moving to another country is a lot of work. Europe is stereotypically seen as having a lot of practical benefits like walkable cities and generally sane culture around stuff like healthcare. America is a big country though and blue states offer a lot of the same benefits.
Not really to the same levels, and federal fuckery seeps into everything nationwide.
Back alley abortions common in the EU? Because we’re less than one lifetime from the age of septic pregnancy wards and could easily go back if mifepristone gets banned
I moved to Portugal about three years back. Unrelated to politics, I just wanted a change. Life is overall much more peaceful and enjoyable here. Let me know if anyone has specific questions!
How did you manage to stay long term there? Which type of visa?
I’m here on the D8 Visa, which allows for self-employment, remote work and the like - just not taking a local job. I’m a freelance software developer so this was the correct type of visa, as I suspect it would be for a lot of Lemmings.
You can apply by mail within the US, you ultimately send your passport and a bunch of documents like your birth certificate to the Portuguese embassy in DC. In the end, you’ll get a visa in your passport that lets you enter Portugal for six months. Then once you’re here, you’ll ultimately go to the immigration agency and exchange it for a credit card sized residence title, kind of like a green card.
Any advice/tips for those looking to do the same?
It’s a wonderful place, so go for it! Advice: everything takes forever when dealing with their government, so don’t expect a fast process. Expect it to take 12 to 18 months to get your visa in hand. Start early!
What do you like most about the differences? Did you learn Portuguese / is it pretty common for locals to speak English? What is your favorite food there that’s not as much a thing in the US?
Most people do speak English to some extent, but I have made a great effort to learn Portuguese and am now fluent. You won’t need to speak it to survive or run errands, but it makes a huge difference in terms of making friends and having a social life.
My favorite change is the slower pace of life. There is no rat race here. People work to live rather than live to work, and there’s always time for a glass of wine on a lazy afternoon.
This dish: https://leitesculinaria.com/7642/recipes-portuguese-eggs-salt-cod-potatoes-bacalhau-bras.html
I just spent a month there checking out Lisbon and Porto.
Definitely a lot of things that are different, some things better here or there, but I’ve only got a tiny perspective.
What are some of the things that surprised you over the long term. What are the worst parts of it?
Surprising: the high degree of safety and its effect on the local psyche. Because violent crime is virtually nonexistent, they aren’t ”calibrated" for danger and are prone to tell you that some place is really sketchy, but when you go there it’s fine, just maybe needs a fresh coat of paint.
Worst part: bureaucracy and government wait times. Need anything done? Go here and talk to this guy. Wait, that was wrong, it’s an online form. Wait, the online form doesn’t work. Call this number. Wait, no, go here and talk to this other guy. Then wait 6 months.
Nah. There’s work to do here.
I’m also holding out until midterms
I need to learn Spanish or German or both. It’s possible I could get approved as a person of German descent, or I could just flee to Mexico/elsewhere in Latin America but I’d need to speak the language.
