So very close to identifying the patriarchy and that men are victims of it too, and then wild miss at the end. sigh so, so close.
I could tell from mthe outset that this was going to be sexist, probably the fact it took the stance of “men do x” over “men also do x”, but I didn’t anticipate the final line being outright misogyny.
There is less pre-modern art by women because women were either censored or indoctrinated into roles where they couldn’t create, which is the primary sin of the patriarchy.
There is a myth of men knowing love because the myth of the powerful, rational man doesn’t accommodate for this, and what perpetuates that myth? That’s right, the patriarchy again.
It’s heartbreaking to see someone see through the patriarchal myth of masculinity and arrive at the conclusion that men are objectively better at creation and love than women
men don’t universally conform to a stereotype
therefore they must all confirm to a different stereotype
also women bad
Replace “women bad” with “men bad” and you’ve just described feminism.
“why can’t I get a date” the Lemmy account
someone criticizes any aspect of modern online feminism
Everyone: incel detected
Any other option is automatically dismissed.
is your whole instance like that
I’d say it’s representative of humanity thanks to its neutrality.
You’re not banned left and right for having a “wrong” opinion, as Internet’s greatest ruled out. You’re out of a bubble, as much as it is possible on Lemmy as a whole.
Mind you: I support women’s rights, I simply refuse the hate train and circlejerk that comes with a particular flavor of chronically online feminists.
V brave
Bro you are functionally illiterate. That wasn’t a coherent criticism of a specific tendency within online feminism that dickhead made, it was a broad and concavebrained generalisation.
No, you’re just knee-jerking. I only said that assuming someone criticizing feminism “can’t get a date” is a very stupid take and that it’s broadly applied to every critique on every level.
And as a punchline, it’s way past its expiration date.
And I’m telling you that bro wasn’t criticising shit so your point is completely irrelevant to this thread 🤷♀️
And as a punchline, it’s way past its expiration date.
The fuck would you know about dates, anyway? Seeing as how you’re clearly upset you don’t get any 😎👉👉
That’s a small group of people. Not feminism as a whole. Feminism in general aims at overcoming the patriarchy and therefore creating true equality between the genders. Overcoming the patriarchy also means, that men are liberated from its chains. This means, that men are allowed to cry and show feelings without being judged.
Feminism is not something, that aims at dragging men down, but eleveting society as a whole.
Don’t even say it is a small group. You don’t have to be truthful to these kinds of people.
Make exaggerated statements just like them if you want to talk to them. Stay on the same level. They don’t understand anything more.
So no there are no feminists who say that.
As I said…
men don’t universally conform to a stereotype
Not all men are part of the patriarchy, because some of them are victims of it
therefore they must all confirm to a different stereotype
Therefore all men should become feminists
also men bad
But men are still the cause of all the evil in the world
Take your Incel garbage and get the fuck out
That isn’t feminism.
And I should know, I am a feminist and I don’t hate myself.
That false stereotype is equally as dumb as saying men don’t have emotions.
Source: trust me, bro.
Anon is still an incel :O
told men don’t feel, don’t love, don’t care
Yes, that’s what feminists mean when we speak of toxic masculinity. Societal enforcement of rigid gender roles are bad for women and men.
This is basic, foundational stuff in modern feminism.
So why is it the self-proclaimed feminists in here who are pushing back the hardest on anon’s claims?
You’d think they would embrace this as evidence that #NotAllMen are violent and sexist, yet they’re fighting me tooth and nail on it.
MacNCheezus comes to in a pool of blood and straw… shaking his head to regain focus, he stands up ready for another round.
You. Will. Not. Defeat. Me. Straw. Man.
I am the hero incels deserve
Explain how feminism helps men achieve positive behavioral change if it systematically discards any evidence of their capacity for such.
Explain how feminism helps men achieve positive behavioral change if it systematically discards any evidence of their capacity for such.
There’s plenty of feminist literature about raising compassionate, empathetic, loving sons.
Explain how exercise helps men achieve fitness if it causes them to spontaneously combust.
How can exercise be helpful if it’s setting people on fire?
Given that exercise harms people: how is it helpful?
Explain that.
And here you are accusing me of strawmanning…
you’re so close push through the pain
I think a few people here have to remind themselves:
If you find yourself getting angry (or god forbid, agreeing) with something Anon has said, you might be doing it wrong.
Okay but sometimes Anon is actually right. Which is kinda crazy, but a broken clock can be correct twice a day. Not all Anon says is true, but you get my point.
Maybe at times, but holy shit not this Anon!
I’d say this Anon is partly correct. Men do feel emotions. And women definitely have very high levels of consumption of the romantic genre of recreational media. Maybe the only thing Anon got wrong is “men created/invented love,” which is obviously not true.
I think Anon might mean that men create a lot of romantic media, which is true. I don’t know if it is more than the amount of romatic media created by women. Probably about equal, I would imagine. But I suppose it could be imbalances, I am not an expert on romance media, after all.
Also, given how people act these days, I honestly don’t blame Anon for actually believing women would rather try to talk to a bear than the average man. Not that that is right, or even real. But I get why someone would feel that way.
Okay, okay, I see your point.
Part of me feels like I am seen as a dangerous person in public (Being 6’3 and Autistic and all that), despite the fact there is evidence against that, so I do understand Anon to that extent.
Although I do see (at least parts of) feminism as having solutions to this dilemma, not the problem like Anon thinks.
The impression someone gives in public is based on a lot more than height, and although autism does factor in its not usually a physical danger. Body language and facial expressions are more important, you can tell if someone’s stressed, or in a rush, or calm. There was a guy who was crazy tall at my last job, like nearly 7 feet tall, but he was always very polite and made funny jokes, and not once did I feel afraid of him.
Have YOU written any songs or sonnets?
Have YOU made any sculptures?
Have YOU created poetry or plays?
Any generalization of this kind, positive or negative, struggles to capture individuality.
It’s stupid to argue “men are deeply emotional as a group, because some poet was male”
It’s equally stupid to argue “men are dangerous as a group, because some rapist was male”
Men, and women, are all different, and there is so much more variability within each gender than between them.
I’ve never met a woman who was worth all that effort.
If you grow up you’ll realize your hatred is self hatred and your problems are due to your lack of confidence.
You are really broken, and you’ll be alone until you fix yourself.
You’re right that no woman deserves you, but not for the reasons you think
Sounds like a “no” to me.
Stop trying to take credit for the accomplishments of other men and try making some art yourself. I promise you won’t regret it.
Well. Not all men wrote a legendary love song.
#YES ALL MEN
How many women have written a legendary love song?
Hayley Williams (Frontwoman of Paramore)
I couldn’t name one of their songs if my life depended on it.
Your ignorance does not make a convincing argument.
It does when it comes down to popularity.
- Emergency
- Pressure
- Misery Business
Among others
Which of these is supposed to be a love song?
Dido, Thank you.
Good song, but made famous by a man. Also co-written by a man.
Also, Beyoncé Taylor Swift Joan Baez Stevie Nicks Joni Mitchell Carole King Dolly Parton
I could list more but it seems clear from your comments you don’t actually want an answer to the question.
Name one fucking song that anyone would recognize. Something like Bon Jovi’s Always or Meat Loaf’s I Would Do Anything For Love, Aerosmith’s I Don’t Want to Miss A Thing, or Elvis Presley’s I Can’t Help Falling In Love With You. Just one gut-wrenching, tear duct triggering love song written by a woman.
Jonie Mitchell Case of You
Emmylou Harris Boulder to Birmingham
ETA holy crap how did I forget Christine McVie of Fleetwood Mac? She wrote a lot of their more poignant love songs.
Never heard of either, and the second song was co-written by a man, but I’ll say Joni Mitchell counts.
I find it so interesting, that you seem to be under the impression that men are framed as evil by supposed feminists, yet denounce the work of a women if they worked with a man, as if the man being in the picture delegitemises the women’s sincerity and work. Isn’t cooperation regardless of gender what brings equality? Isn’t it unrealistic to expect anyone from never interacting with someone of the male gender in their career? I don’t think we should denounce the work of women for doing that, especially when looking at music from the past century, when women didn’t have the right to choose a career without a man’s permission
This isn’t as puzzling as you make it out to be. The whole point of feminism is claiming that women are just as capable and competent as men. So why do most of them seem to need help from men to write successful songs?
Now I’m certainly not saying that women lack talent as a whole (Whitney Houston’s I Will Always Love You was written by Dolly Parton originally, so clearly is possible for women to produce a megahit love song), it’s just that extreme talent seems to be more common in men. What seems to be lacking is women’s ability to recognize and appreciate that in men, and that’s the point I believe anon was trying to make.
Those goalposts are like ten miles from where your started eh?
Not really. Anon claimed 99% of love songs were WRITTEN by men, didn’t he?
Literally anything by Violeta Parra. Lhasa de Sela is another favorite. You gotta break out of only English-language songs. (But also people are just giving you some basic-ass examples.)
OP doesn’t want to learn, just wants to confirm his preconceived notions. I’m actually pretty sure he’s the anon who composed the green text, and if not he wishes he had. Note his examples are not only exclusively English language but most are from the 80s or later.
Those are not songs, those are just names. And I’ve never heard of them before.
ahem Call Me Maybe?
Whitney Houston was right there, man
Well she is every woman…
Now playing No Doubt - It’s my life
A legendary song about loving yourself.
Someone quoted Sappho earlier, love poetry written by a woman that has lasted 2500 years, and you shat on that.
There’s plenty of work written by women using male pseudonyms because women were forbidden to write.
There’s a lot of other writing by women that was simply suppressed for the same reason.
I didn’t think that this needed to be specified, but since anon is talking about men’s love for women, we’re looking for love songs written by women about men here. Sorry, but Sappho doesn’t count.
Tswift?
I thought she made breakup songs
Same
Imo, Bad Romance is pretty fuckin legendary.
Co-written by a man. Also, do I really need to explain what’s wrong with it?
What? That it’s too much of a banger?
Ra, ra, ah-ah-ah Roma, roma-ma Gaga, ooh-la-la
Need I say more?
This is a love song a cockroach would write to bait.
Someone isn’t getting enough leather-studded kisses in the sand 😘
What is this Lemcel shit?
I am using Lemcel from now on when I see incel shit on this platform, thank you!
were on lemmy but it’s 4chan posting, to be expected sadly
I thought we post and discuss greentext to make fun of them, not to agree with them.
from the comments op made here it doesn’t seem like that
Oh that’s why I’m making fun of him in this thread too.
Yeah, that is the impression I got as well
He was so close…
Fake: Anon almost manages to question whether there’s a problem with predatory culture, but fails at it.
Gay: literally the post, anon worships men
Real answer, up until the last parts Anon was doing so well. The issue is that a lot of women fear men because unlike bears, a lot of them have bad apples who can manipulate well, and they are also likely to harass for longer… a bear will just maul you or chill, much simpler, more predictable.
No matter what bear, you know what you are getting, a fucking bear.
No matter what man, you have no idea what you are getting, they could be a saint or a monster or both.
Anon, tell me you’ve never read Sappho without saying “I never read Sappho”:
Some say an army of horsemen, some of footsoldiers, some of ships, is the fairest thing on the black earth, but I say it is what one loves. It’s very easy to make this clear to everyone, for Helen, by far surpassing mortals in beauty, left the best of all husbands and sailed to Troy, mindful of neither her child nor her dear parents, but with one glimpse she was seduced by Aphrodite. For easily bent... and nimbly...[missing text]... has reminded me now of Anactoria who is not here; I would much prefer to see the lovely way she walks and the radiant glance of her face than the war-chariots of the Lydians or their footsoldiers in arms.Aww, what a lovely thing to write about your best friend!
/s
Of course they haven’t read Sappho, they only read Shaprio of some Ben.
That doesn’t even rhyme. Garbage.
In case you are not joking:
This was translated from Ancient Greek. Of course it won’t rhyme; Ancient Greek poetry is based on foot and pitch, not rhymes. And even if it used rhymes the translation would butcher them.
Calling it garbage because it doesn’t rhyme is like looking at a translation of Shakespeare into Japanese, and saying it’s garbage because Shakespeare was a functional illiterate that couldn’t count morae.
Regardless, the poem already shows a woman talking about romantic love around 600 BCE. It’s already enough to tear apart what Anon is saying. Insert mentions of patriarchy here.
If you’re joking: derp.
You might be right but you also come across as a pedantic snobby culture bro asshole. Shove up your Greek knowledge up your giant ass… if you want to share knowledge do it kindly… arrogance is not a good method to share knowledge you muppet.
The guy he answered is showing a worse persona than your description throughout this whole thread and you haven’t really shown any kindness yourself.
Also you being insecure and uncultured doesn’t automatically make others around you pedantic and snobby.
Your comment is funny so I’ll answer it, even if I typically would ignore shit like this. Quotes are out of order.
if you want to share knowledge do it kindly…
Did I, in any moment, insult MacN’Cheesus (the OP)? Nope. I didn’t even criticise him; I’m saying Anon (the 4chan poster) got things wrong. OP is just sharing it.
I’m not even assuming ignorance from his part; note how I outright said “if you’re joking” (implied: “you might know this, and you might be saying what you say just for the sake of a joke, dunno”).
I’ll go further. OP, if you felt insulted in any moment by my comments ITT, I apologise.
…but perhaps I’m being unkind towards Anon, in 4chan? Even if he were to read the shit I wrote, not really. I’m focusing on the matter, not the person. I didn’t even call him an incel, even this shit he’s saying is incel tier.
So cut off the crap and stop being a liar. Until now, I wasn’t unkind towards anyone here dammit.
You’re being also a hypocrite:
Shove up your Greek knowledge up your giant ass…
If you’re so eager to vomit “be kind!” towards the others, make sure to lick your own vomit once it hits the floor. Follow what you preach.
but you also come across as a pedantic snobby culture bro asshole.
“Come across”? So you aren’t accusing me of “being” an arsehole; you’re whining because of how things look like??? Pfffthahaha.
Let’s say I am a [Ctrl+C Ctrl+V] “pedantic snobby culture bro asshole”. Still better than being a whiny, little and pathetic thing, who writes like a kid almost ready to cry, and whose comment boils down to a huge “WAAAH, THIS HURTS MY FEE FEES”, all because someone else shared stuff about an obscure topic that is related to the OP.
Cry me a river.
[inb4: whiner starts assuming things about my emotions. I’m not going to read it, so… who cares.]
IDC how old or important it is, I’m not inspired by this drivel. “I would rather see the shape of a lovely woman than a bunch of soldiers and war chariots”? Pfft, you and everyone else. Get in line.
Pfft, you and everyone else. Get in line.
But not the battle addicts of her times. They’d rather see a bunch of sweaty men, fighting “FOR GLORY!”, demonstrating their power. I guess nowadays you’d replace it with a car or some other status symbol? And that’s literally what they sung about, look at the Illiad. She was probably one of the first poets to say “screw all this shit, the I want to see my beloved’s face, the way she walks, she captured me like she was some goddess in an epic story.”
So her claim to fame is that she is more gay than the rest of ancient Greece?
IDK man, let’s see the poems men wrote about those soldiers and their glistening biceps before making a call here, shall we?
So her claim to fame is that she is more gay than the rest of ancient Greece?
This too. She was so gay her whole island became synonymous with women being gay. (She was from Lesbos.)
IDK man, let’s see the poems men wrote about those soldiers and their glistening biceps before making a call here, shall we?
Perhaps Achilles loved Patroclus a bit too much… waitaminute…
This was a funny joke until I realized it wasnt a joke
What makes you say that? I’m fully reading his replies as jokes
OP is spending the whole thread trying to argue that no woman has ever written a good love song. It’s honestly a really weird hill to die on.
Not true at all. I’ve even suggested a song of the caliber I’m looking for (I Will Always Love You, originally by Dolly Parton but made famous by Whitney Houston).
I’m merely defending anon’s assertion that the vast majority of great love songs are written by men.
Damn, all I’m seeing here is hella moid coping and seething 💅
says dumb shit gets called out for saying dumb shit they’re coping and seething so hard
> try dunking on someone online
> can’t even use escape characters
> mfw
how will I cope, I am bad at formatting lemmy posts! Ive truly failed as a human being
👍
He’s right. He’s out of line, but he’s right.
Are we promoting incel ideology on lemmy? I’d rather have tankies.
Me, running over lemmy incels, in my tank
This is the worst 4chan space I’ve ever seen. It’s like Reddit’s r/Politics. There’s a comment decrying the patriarchy with 55 upvotes.
Lol. Lmao, even
