I care about decorum insofar as I think in personal discussions calling someone a fucking idiot is not useful to understanding or changing their views. In politics I don’t really care about decorum? Why do you think I would?
As for domestic issues: Yeah I care about them, I fucking live here. If both practical options have the same outcome outside the nation but vastly different ones inside, why wouldn’t I vote for the party that’s going to improve one of them? It’s not like the democrats are worse than the republicans internationally.
As long as there are two choices in this system I will always choose the better choice. Not doing so is completely illogical. If you want a choice that’s not evil you have to work to change the system entirely. If you were planning on doing that, why not also make things less bad when you can?
That’s literally the point, you will legitimize a system if it serves you. You do not consider how your rationale and accepting this harms farm more people. Billions vs. a few million within the Imperial Core.
Just so you know, marginalized groups in your own country do not fare any better under a democrat. They are still all the time under threat of ICE, they were so under Biden but you lot just did not give a single fucking shit about it because liberals lack object permanence.
Just so you know, marginalized groups in your own country do not fare any better under a democrat
You might actually be delusional. Name any metric under which a marginalized group could fare better or worse and I will show you the difference.
Anyways “legitimizing” is a vague principle that leads to incorrect choices. If there would be a real, practical effect you could point to, you wouldn’t have to speak so vaguely.
You might actually be delusional. Name any metric under which a marginalized group could fare better or worse and I will show you the difference.
Deportations.
Anyways “legitimizing” is a vague principle that leads to incorrect choices. If there would be a real, practical effect you could point to, you wouldn’t have to speak so vaguely.
It’s called reading theory and organizing with communists and preparing for a revolution.
This is actually not as clear cut as you might think. The Biden admin carried out fewer deportations of people already inside the united states than the Trump admin did, instead opting to turn many more people away at the border. Kind of unclear how to count that, but since we are discussing the qualify of life of maginalized groups within the USA, I would say that yes, fewer people in that group are being deported. The manner of tracking and treating people in ICE “custody” was also significantly better under Biden afaik. This article has a good breakdown of the numbers (source quality isn’t known to me but appears well-researched):
And this is the example metric you chose, so if democrats treated marginalized groups equally as bad as republicans on average you would expect it to be clearly worse in this case assuming you chose the most obvious example.
It’s called reading theory and organizing with communists and preparing for a revolution.
“I don’t want your detailed data, I want my big number so I don’t have to actually think about it.” - You
It is reasonable to classify removing immigrants living in the US as relevant to people in the US and denying border entry as relevant to people internationally.
It literally is better though, like quantifiably. Fewer people are having their lives ruined. Not only are fewer of them being removed from the interior US but those who are are often being told to leave rather than thrown in cages. Your claim was that marginalized people in the US do not do better under democrats, but they do, so your conclusion that voting is useless is illogical. If this doesn’t matter now, why did you suggest it as something that would support your argument earlier?
You aren’t understanding what I am saying. When you say that “fewer people…” it means that you’ve resigned that there will always be victims under both parties.
And no, marginalized people still do not do better under Democrats, I mean ffs Roe v. Wade was overturned during Biden’s term, just so it could be used as election bait.
so your conclusion that voting is useless is illogical. If this doesn’t matter now, why did you suggest it as something that would support your argument earlier?
It matters that arguing for and supporting a system that legitimizes genocide, is legitimizing it to other people, you’re putting effort into getting others to see it is a legitimate way of making “change” but that would mean accepting genocide at MINIMUM.
Despite this, voting does not matter in the system as it’s made to serve capital and if that is ever threatened then they will drop that facade and go fascist.
The supreme court makes court decisions, not the sitting president. In the vote to overturn Roe v Wade, all 6 justices appointed by a republican government voted to overturn it (except kind of Roberts), and all 3 justices appointed by a democratic government voted to keep it. Seems pretty clear to me.
Systems don’t make things happen, people do. It doesn’t matter what system you have, if the people in it want something to happen, it will happen. I have not resigned myself to a system of suffering because it is not the system that causes the suffering, but the people in it. You’re acting like a representative democratic republic in a vacuum would just start genociding people, or that a communist system would not be capable of it.
Voting clearly matters because it elects different people who will vote for different policies. Will both major parties keep voting for genocide? Yes, although at different rates. Will they support capitalism? Definitely. But would roe v wade have been overturned if we had a majority of supreme court justices be on the left? No. Does that not matter?
If they do “drop the facade”, then sure, voting would not matter and it would be clear to see and people would act accordingly. Is that not a good outcome for organizing a revolution?
I care about decorum insofar as I think in personal discussions calling someone a fucking idiot is not useful to understanding or changing their views. In politics I don’t really care about decorum? Why do you think I would?
As for domestic issues: Yeah I care about them, I fucking live here. If both practical options have the same outcome outside the nation but vastly different ones inside, why wouldn’t I vote for the party that’s going to improve one of them? It’s not like the democrats are worse than the republicans internationally.
As long as there are two choices in this system I will always choose the better choice. Not doing so is completely illogical. If you want a choice that’s not evil you have to work to change the system entirely. If you were planning on doing that, why not also make things less bad when you can?
That’s literally the point, you will legitimize a system if it serves you. You do not consider how your rationale and accepting this harms farm more people. Billions vs. a few million within the Imperial Core.
Just so you know, marginalized groups in your own country do not fare any better under a democrat. They are still all the time under threat of ICE, they were so under Biden but you lot just did not give a single fucking shit about it because liberals lack object permanence.
You might actually be delusional. Name any metric under which a marginalized group could fare better or worse and I will show you the difference.
Anyways “legitimizing” is a vague principle that leads to incorrect choices. If there would be a real, practical effect you could point to, you wouldn’t have to speak so vaguely.
Deportations.
It’s called reading theory and organizing with communists and preparing for a revolution.
This is actually not as clear cut as you might think. The Biden admin carried out fewer deportations of people already inside the united states than the Trump admin did, instead opting to turn many more people away at the border. Kind of unclear how to count that, but since we are discussing the qualify of life of maginalized groups within the USA, I would say that yes, fewer people in that group are being deported. The manner of tracking and treating people in ICE “custody” was also significantly better under Biden afaik. This article has a good breakdown of the numbers (source quality isn’t known to me but appears well-researched):
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/journal/policy-beat/comparing-biden-and-trump-deportation-records
And this is the example metric you chose, so if democrats treated marginalized groups equally as bad as republicans on average you would expect it to be clearly worse in this case assuming you chose the most obvious example.
Responding elsewhere.
Lmao alright. We could also just count deportations https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
And whatever dumbass “argument” you have to make, will already have been adressed
“I don’t want your detailed data, I want my big number so I don’t have to actually think about it.” - You
It is reasonable to classify removing immigrants living in the US as relevant to people in the US and denying border entry as relevant to people internationally.
Funny to talk about dismissing detailed data and then dismiss detailed data. Anyway all you say has been said before. It is adressed in the link.
Your article literally has the same data in my link but less of it. I’m not sure what in that you expect to change my mind?
This is not any better. It’s still a 99% Hitler vs. 100% Hitler
https://time.com/6550047/joe-biden-immigration-private-prisons/
https://www.axios.com/2025/01/15/ice-detention-expansion-biden-trump-deportation
Tom Homan, the “Border Czar” was one appointed by Obama and was even given a medal by him for his contributions of deporting people.
It literally is better though, like quantifiably. Fewer people are having their lives ruined. Not only are fewer of them being removed from the interior US but those who are are often being told to leave rather than thrown in cages. Your claim was that marginalized people in the US do not do better under democrats, but they do, so your conclusion that voting is useless is illogical. If this doesn’t matter now, why did you suggest it as something that would support your argument earlier?
You aren’t understanding what I am saying. When you say that “fewer people…” it means that you’ve resigned that there will always be victims under both parties.
And no, marginalized people still do not do better under Democrats, I mean ffs Roe v. Wade was overturned during Biden’s term, just so it could be used as election bait.
It matters that arguing for and supporting a system that legitimizes genocide, is legitimizing it to other people, you’re putting effort into getting others to see it is a legitimate way of making “change” but that would mean accepting genocide at MINIMUM.
Despite this, voting does not matter in the system as it’s made to serve capital and if that is ever threatened then they will drop that facade and go fascist.
The supreme court makes court decisions, not the sitting president. In the vote to overturn Roe v Wade, all 6 justices appointed by a republican government voted to overturn it (except kind of Roberts), and all 3 justices appointed by a democratic government voted to keep it. Seems pretty clear to me.
Systems don’t make things happen, people do. It doesn’t matter what system you have, if the people in it want something to happen, it will happen. I have not resigned myself to a system of suffering because it is not the system that causes the suffering, but the people in it. You’re acting like a representative democratic republic in a vacuum would just start genociding people, or that a communist system would not be capable of it.
Voting clearly matters because it elects different people who will vote for different policies. Will both major parties keep voting for genocide? Yes, although at different rates. Will they support capitalism? Definitely. But would roe v wade have been overturned if we had a majority of supreme court justices be on the left? No. Does that not matter?
If they do “drop the facade”, then sure, voting would not matter and it would be clear to see and people would act accordingly. Is that not a good outcome for organizing a revolution?