That was disturbing news to Angelica Jadunandan, who moved to New York from Florida with her two young daughters three years ago. Her older daughter, who is eight, is transgender, and Angelica wanted to move them to a safe blue state—somewhere her family’s medical care would not be called into question. New York is a self-declared “sanctuary state” for trans people. It seemed like a good option.
It’s quite curious that we’re trying to allow folks that can’t drive, drink, vote, join the military, or do any other number of adult activities alter their body like this. I went through this when I was younger, and it’s rough. We need to be aware that children genuinely do not have their own best interests at heart most of the time.
I wanted to be the same gender as the only parent that was there for me, and I think a lot of what we’re seeing here is similar to that. Maybe it would be worth it to talk to someone that’s grown up, someone that went through this themselves. Someone that received the gender affirming care while they were young… although that might be hard to find for this very reason.
I don’t understand it right now, and I would even say I disagree. But I’m open to understanding… I just don’t think the experience I’m looking for has even happened in a person yet (due to the mentioned legal issues).
At the end of the day, the subjective experience runs everything. Does this stuff harm or hurt folks in the long run? Only time will tell.
Edit: The angle is pretty different depending on if we’re talking about reversible procedures or not. If they’re reversible, the discussion is probably more similar to the current accepted practice of prescribing mental health medication to kids, which most people see as fine.
For those that wish to continue the scientific pursuit, this does a decent job of explaining the issues with current studies, although the organization is not without bias: Amsterdam cohort study
Didn’t think I’d ever see this shit here
Fuck off entirely with this
All gender affirming care that is or has been provided to minors at scale is reversible. The standard for providing gender affirming care to minors is puberty blockers and social transition, never anything permanent like surgery. Personally, I don’t see any cause for concern about potential harm to minors from providing gender affirming care, but I do see the harm that is done to them when that care is denied and find it far more concerning given that a common result of that harm is the most permanent and irreversible outcome possible, suicide.
That’s good to know, thank you. It makes the angle pretty different.
An integral part of transgender care is also therapeutic evaluation and discussion with minors and parents to thoroughly understand what is needed at specific stages of the minor’s development.
The issue of parents/schools “promoting” kids to be a different gender is so insanely overblown. There isn’t any documented case of an adult coming forward to claim that they received gender altering medical intervention as a minor when they shouldn’t have.
You should probably edit your comment to include this information since somebody might see the misinformation in your original comment and might not see this comment correcting it
I’ll add a clarifier at the end but I didn’t specifically reference procedures, so I’ll probably leave the “like this” part unless that’s considered deceptive in some way?
Regret rate is lower then joint replacement surgery and chemotherapy.
I can’t really find a direct large scale study, honestly we should fund one. I did find this though…
This isn’t a direct study but it kind of explains the issue I was trying to communicate, and it even references the other study that was linked here:
The Amsterdam cohort of gender dysphoria study
Per that that website you linked:
I guess it makes sense you’re getting your talking points from people who don’t respect the bodily autonomy of women, since they also don’t seem to respect the bodily autonomy of people in general.
You have no actual points or argument and are just wasting peoples time.
OK thanks, I will take their numbers with a grain of salt. It’s looking like the regret numbers might be closer to 10-20% but that’s still pretty low and generally acceptable.
Yeah, there’s definitely data supporting this. It’s good news for sure in the medical field.
I do wonder about sample sizes and selection bias, as the ones I found seem to be a bit small and targeted. I think I’m going to research some of the larger studies that might be ongoing right now to see how they’re coming along.
If I find anything useful, I’ll post it here!
My friend, the meta analysis has been done. Consult a medical librarian. This is not controversial at all.
Oh, I’m not referring to a meta analysis… I actually avoid those because it’s a bit harder to verify all of the sample selection methods. I’m curious about direct, ongoing, large scale studies that may or may not have wrapped up.
Oh get stuffed with this concern trolling. The regret rate for children who transition is almost non-existent.
Man, I really thought this place would have more thoughtful discussion than Reddit. There’s nuance to everything and we’re all trying to understand each others human experience. It looks like mine is vastly different from yours, but that’s alright.
Edit: Oh I see this is your main topic you post about, it probably affects you deeply. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way!
Against my better judgement, I’m going to engage in good faith here.
What exactly do you mean by “like this”? There is nothing about this girl altering her body in the article at all. In general, people her age transitioning is mostly social (changing name/pronouns/aesthetic) and getting care from specialists who are doctors who know more than you or I or the average person about what might help the person in question. At a certain point puberty blockers come into play, which is not really altering the body as it is preventing possible harm to the child by forcing them to go through a possible traumatic experience that we can prevent. This gives the person additional time to ensure they are confident and happy with their decision. Puberty blockers are widely studied and if a person chooses they can stop them and the puberty of their assigned sex will proceed as expected. In the case that they decide to proceed there is an extremely small regret rate and the majority of that regret is because post coming out the person was not supported by others.
Your personal experience has really nothing to do with her experience or truly any other trans persons experience, seeing as you are clearly not trans. Your thoughts on these people are irrelevant as they and their literal team of doctors likely know what’s best for them far more than you ever could. There is paper after paper and organization after organization that you can look into with stats and figures and actual evidence, so I hope before you go around assuming your personal experience is somehow more relevant or accurate than that of the majority of all trans people and accredited medical professionals, you spend some time actually bothering to look into it. If you truly believe that time will tell, then I have great news for you because we as a society have known about trans people forever, and time has indeed already told, over and over and over again: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8099405/
The study appears to be a meta analysis or aggregation, so it’s going to take me a bit longer to look into. If you have favorite non-aggregate studies you personally know of, please let me know too. I’m sure I’ll find some, but my searches might not lead me down the same path.
I specifically linked a meta analysis because it shows that we have collected the same data over and over again and have found the same results.
If you’re unwilling to take the current medical approach as based on science, I really can’t imagine a single study changing your mind, but just for fun, here’s one: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15842032/ 0.6% regret rate
Feel free to note it’s from 2005 and treatments have generally become even more advanced since then, meaning the process of medical transition was likely more physically taxing for them and with wore outcomes than it might be for people now, two decades later.
This does a decent enough job of trying to explain my issue with the sample selection and process used:
https://lemmy.today/comment/26855969
This is standard concern trolling behavior. I provided a specific study per your explicit request, and instead of responding to that specific study you link to a random website that has a bunch of boilerplate responses that are not a response at all.
Also, per that that website you linked:
I guess it makes sense you’re getting your talking points from people who don’t respect the bodily autonomy of women, since they also don’t seem to respect the bodily autonomy of people in general.
I promise I’m not trolling and you can DM me if you want and I won’t get upset or emotional, just want to talk and understand.
It did also mention that study in the link, or so I thought. I could be wrong.
Thanks! It would work to your advantage to operate a bit friendlier though. How are we going to change the internet without some smiles?
I’ll take a look at the link. Personally, I just think it’s a bit harder to verify the sample integrity in aggregate studies, that’s all. I believe a good portion of the scientific community hold this belief as well, but it’s not my area of expertise.
Thanks but with respect, everyone’s personal opinion is valid. I appreciate your information and will read the article you linked.
What do you mean by valid? If I believe onions cures cancer is that a valid personal opinion? People can have opinions, sure, but especially regarding actual medical issues, not all opinions are equal.
That’s fair, maybe I used the wrong words.
I think my experience can have something to do with their experience. I think a lot of the feelings I’ve felt are similar, although not the same.
I don’t think my experience is inherently unrelated, invalid, or dismissible because I’m not trans. If you still disagree I guess that’s alright, but that’s what I meant by opinion.
Go play in traffic, Dumbass