A theocratic autocracy will rise from the ashes. Unless you kids have done more prep work that you let on, your not winning the war if it goes hot, and the crazies with stockpiles and organization in place have the advantage over unprepared forum users.
Socialists believe in a real try at social equality. Tankies believe you must murder people or at least ignore large amounts of suffering to force it in one fell swoop.
“tankie” is pejorative term used by fascists and libs for Socialists and Communists. the people who use the term tankie unironically often denounce many or all existing Socialist states (Cuba, China, DPRK, etc) as “authoritarian”.
No it isn’t. It’s a pejorative term for fake leftists who do not have regard for human life even though that is supposed to be the only concern they have. Sure, it might get overused or incorrectly applied on this platform. But that’s because we’ve seen so many damn true tankies.
It’s a pejorative for what you perceive as fake leftists, but in actuality are just the group of people that support the DPRK, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos. You perceive this support as a disregard for human life, because you view these countries negatively. The actual base of what makes a tankie is support for these socialist countries, though, your opinion on them is not the definition. In any case, by your definition the Black Panther Party were fake leftists with no regard for human life:
In reality, tankies are just the socialists that support the actuality of existing revolution, the Black Panthers being predecessors to the modern tankie in America.
“tankie” is pejorative term used by fascists and libs for Socialists and Communists. the people who use the term tankie unironically often denounce many or all existing Socialist states (Cuba, China, DPRK, etc) as “authoritarian”.
I repeat: You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.
I’ve seen a lot of hysteria around “tankies” since I started using Lemmy and I gotta say I really don’t get it. Yes, there are people here who are to the left of Democrats. No, that doesn’t make them the enemy, or secretly MAGA or Russian or whatever. They just… disagree with liberals. I see opinions attributed to “everyone from a .ml community” that I’ve never seen from any of the actual users. People gleefully brag about blocking swaths of other users, yet I’ve almost never seen any .ml user actually being as toxic as they get branded. I’m pretty sure I’ve even heard people say that you are a particularly bad one, but I haven’t witnessed it.
Also, lemmy was created by ml’s right? It’s one thing to have very little tolerance for different political opinions, but it’s another thing entirely to literally just be the gray characters from this meme and still somehow think you’re in the right.
People should run their lemmy instance as they want.
The non stop feudposting about what people do in their own instance is ridiculous. Block the instance and move on with your life if you need to. Block me to while youre at it! Who cares?
It seems there is some other agenda at play with those who are on this dumb ass crusade against .ml
I think people generally think of themselves as progressive when they come here, and it might be their first run-in with revolutionary socialists. They get caught between their progressive beliefs, largely around the Bernie/AOC area, and this suddenly new group (to them) of people that despise reformism and the Democrats almost as much as the Republicans. It creates a lot of friction, IMO. And yea, Lemmy was and is made by MLs, which means we have a permanent foothold here.
Have you tried browsing hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml? Lemmy.ml has its own vibe because we don’t really defederate from anyone, but Lemmygrad.ml and Hexbear.net are pretty good examples of what “tankies” are like when we aren’t getting into constant squabbles with liberals. You’ll see tons of queer people, a lot of passionate people, and a lot of normalcy, to be honest.
I’m not going to lie, as an outsider this always seems to be the case. Could you explain what you actually want and what you could see realistically happening if the fascists won?
what you could see realistically happening if the fascists won?
Arguably, and I would, the fascists are already in control. Just think of the tech enshittification at the hands of technofascists. Think of the endless wars; how much say in those wars do you truly believe you have? Think of the military budget outspending every single other country combined. We are the most powerful and richest country in the history of this planet … and 50% of americans can’t afford a 1 bedroom apartment. Americans can’t afford groceries. Real wages have been stuck in the 1970s. We are bankrupting ourselves with medical and student debt. Nobody can afford a house. Kids still in cages, guantanamo bay still operating, ICE record funding every year,
How much say do you have at your job? Unions are being squashed and suppressed. Have you attended a pro-gaza rally lately? How did the police treat you?
…I want a better world in which the 99% actually have a say, actually have a better life, and we don’t have 1% of people hoarding all the power and wealth of the world. This IS possible.
Not who you asked, but I want socialism, which requires revolution, which itself requires a mass working class revolutionary party, a militant and class conscious working class, and instability within the capitalist class. The first two are directly actionable through joining socialist orgs like PSL and doing large amounts of outreach, agitation, etc. The latter is out of our control, no matter if the Democrats or Republicans win in elections, and is more a matter of course as capitalism decays.
Fascism isn’t something that can be elected. Fascism is when the capitalist class oversteps the legal boundaries and restricts the civil rights of the country, when bourgeois democracy is replaced with outright direct rule by capital. Republicans winning or losing does not actually increase or decrease the chance of fascism, because fascism is a response to economic conditions and rising socialist organizing outside of the legal system.
This is important, because it means Democrats winning does not stop fascism. Fascism is out of the control of the working class, and can only be prevented by socialism, and stopped once in action by fighting it directly. In either case, mass socialist organizing is both the vaccine and the cure for fascism, depending on the timeline.
Fascism is when the capitalist class oversteps the legal boundaries and restricts the civil rights of the country, when bourgeois democracy is replaced with outright direct rule by capital.
Seems like democrats getting elected does help alleviate fascism then?
Democrats getting elected doesn’t alleviate the risk of fascism, because as I said, it’s the capitalist class overstepping the legal boundaries. Democrats can legislate all they want against fascism (which they won’t do, let’s be honest), but the point is that capital does not care what is legal, and holds the actual power in society by owning the commanding heights of the economy. It can directly implement fascism without the consent of the DNC.
As for fighting it directly, a socialist revolution prevents the risk of fascism by taking the commanding heights from the capitalist class. In the case of fascism, socialist revolution is what can end it most effectively. In either case, armed struggle is almost certainly necessary, but it’s far cleaner before fascism actually is implemented than after.
There is always a risk of fascism. My point is that fascist policies are implemented and acted upon far more often under R rule than D, and prosecuted more under D than R.
I think you’re still not getting how fascism works. The party in power makes absolutely no difference on whether or not fascism is implemented, and the drive for fascism is related to the ability for the capitalist class to continue to effectively control the population, which decreases in times of economic duress, and which is necessarily a ticking clock in capitalism as it is unsustainable.
the drive for fascism is related to the ability for the capitalist class to continue to effectively control the population
You mean like through the media, where republicans are less truthful, own the means to control what news people see, and intervene (as on Twitter and Facebook) to prevent certain information from spreading? Or how Ronald Reagan repealed the fairness doctrine and vetoed its reinstatement?
Or do you mean through economic means, where republicans push to keep costs high for the poor and low for the rich (healthcare, tariffs, tax policy)?
Or maybe directly through force, like with ICE or historical examples like President Harding taking the side of the mining companies in the battle of blair mountain?
I have seen that sentiment directly expressed many times and I’ve seen it implied many times. Still see it despite blocking the shit out of sources of those kinds of opinions. Just today someone said to me “if you don’t think it should be burned down now, what would it take?”
The tankies want Trump to win because they think that after he’s destroyed the US, a socialist utopia will rise from the ashes.
A theocratic autocracy will rise from the ashes. Unless you kids have done more prep work that you let on, your not winning the war if it goes hot, and the crazies with stockpiles and organization in place have the advantage over unprepared forum users.
There will be several theocracies arising in various places. And they’ll all be at eternal holy war with each other.
At least some one will keep the ashes warm for us.
Not a single tankie believes in utopic socialism
Of course not. But it’s what they claim to believe in.
No?
You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.
Socialists believe in a real try at social equality. Tankies believe you must murder people or at least ignore large amounts of suffering to force it in one fell swoop.
Socialists are not tankies, and tankies are not socialists (despite often claiming otherwise).
“tankie” is pejorative term used by fascists and libs for Socialists and Communists. the people who use the term tankie unironically often denounce many or all existing Socialist states (Cuba, China, DPRK, etc) as “authoritarian”.
Everybody should denounce the DPRK.
I denounce every single nation state past present and future. These nations divide the working class against ourselves. Fuck them all.
Because the Capitalists and billionaires told you to?
Because I have eyes.
No it isn’t. It’s a pejorative term for fake leftists who do not have regard for human life even though that is supposed to be the only concern they have. Sure, it might get overused or incorrectly applied on this platform. But that’s because we’ve seen so many damn true tankies.
It’s a pejorative for what you perceive as fake leftists, but in actuality are just the group of people that support the DPRK, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos. You perceive this support as a disregard for human life, because you view these countries negatively. The actual base of what makes a tankie is support for these socialist countries, though, your opinion on them is not the definition. In any case, by your definition the Black Panther Party were fake leftists with no regard for human life:
In reality, tankies are just the socialists that support the actuality of existing revolution, the Black Panthers being predecessors to the modern tankie in America.
I’m talking specifically about tankies, you know that kind of people who worship the likes of Putin and Xi and root for Hamas and the Houthis.
“tankie” is pejorative term used by fascists and libs for Socialists and Communists. the people who use the term tankie unironically often denounce many or all existing Socialist states (Cuba, China, DPRK, etc) as “authoritarian”.
I repeat: You have a very warped view of what Socialists believe in.
Yeah. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Lmao show us anybody claiming any of this shit.
Not even that – they just want to clear the way for Russia/China to gain more power.
Tankies don’t want a socialist anything though
The problem here is a red fascist carrying water for free and someone paid to troll on behalf of black fascists look the same on the Internet.
No, nobody has said this, lmao.
I’ve seen a lot of hysteria around “tankies” since I started using Lemmy and I gotta say I really don’t get it. Yes, there are people here who are to the left of Democrats. No, that doesn’t make them the enemy, or secretly MAGA or Russian or whatever. They just… disagree with liberals. I see opinions attributed to “everyone from a .ml community” that I’ve never seen from any of the actual users. People gleefully brag about blocking swaths of other users, yet I’ve almost never seen any .ml user actually being as toxic as they get branded. I’m pretty sure I’ve even heard people say that you are a particularly bad one, but I haven’t witnessed it.
Also, lemmy was created by ml’s right? It’s one thing to have very little tolerance for different political opinions, but it’s another thing entirely to literally just be the gray characters from this meme and still somehow think you’re in the right.
People should run their lemmy instance as they want.
The non stop feudposting about what people do in their own instance is ridiculous. Block the instance and move on with your life if you need to. Block me to while youre at it! Who cares?
It seems there is some other agenda at play with those who are on this dumb ass crusade against .ml
I think people generally think of themselves as progressive when they come here, and it might be their first run-in with revolutionary socialists. They get caught between their progressive beliefs, largely around the Bernie/AOC area, and this suddenly new group (to them) of people that despise reformism and the Democrats almost as much as the Republicans. It creates a lot of friction, IMO. And yea, Lemmy was and is made by MLs, which means we have a permanent foothold here.
Have you tried browsing hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml? Lemmy.ml has its own vibe because we don’t really defederate from anyone, but Lemmygrad.ml and Hexbear.net are pretty good examples of what “tankies” are like when we aren’t getting into constant squabbles with liberals. You’ll see tons of queer people, a lot of passionate people, and a lot of normalcy, to be honest.
I like hexbears cute pictures, even if they dont like me. lol
This is very incorrect.
I’m not going to lie, as an outsider this always seems to be the case. Could you explain what you actually want and what you could see realistically happening if the fascists won?
Simply put: I don’t want billionaires controlling every single aspect of society, as they do now.
If you’d like to read more, I agree with all of this.. I also agree with all of this.
Arguably, and I would, the fascists are already in control. Just think of the tech enshittification at the hands of technofascists. Think of the endless wars; how much say in those wars do you truly believe you have? Think of the military budget outspending every single other country combined. We are the most powerful and richest country in the history of this planet … and 50% of americans can’t afford a 1 bedroom apartment. Americans can’t afford groceries. Real wages have been stuck in the 1970s. We are bankrupting ourselves with medical and student debt. Nobody can afford a house. Kids still in cages, guantanamo bay still operating, ICE record funding every year,
How much say do you have at your job? Unions are being squashed and suppressed. Have you attended a pro-gaza rally lately? How did the police treat you?
…I want a better world in which the 99% actually have a say, actually have a better life, and we don’t have 1% of people hoarding all the power and wealth of the world. This IS possible.
That sounds amazing, but somehow our methods for achieving it always end up opposed.
Not who you asked, but I want socialism, which requires revolution, which itself requires a mass working class revolutionary party, a militant and class conscious working class, and instability within the capitalist class. The first two are directly actionable through joining socialist orgs like PSL and doing large amounts of outreach, agitation, etc. The latter is out of our control, no matter if the Democrats or Republicans win in elections, and is more a matter of course as capitalism decays.
Fascism isn’t something that can be elected. Fascism is when the capitalist class oversteps the legal boundaries and restricts the civil rights of the country, when bourgeois democracy is replaced with outright direct rule by capital. Republicans winning or losing does not actually increase or decrease the chance of fascism, because fascism is a response to economic conditions and rising socialist organizing outside of the legal system.
This is important, because it means Democrats winning does not stop fascism. Fascism is out of the control of the working class, and can only be prevented by socialism, and stopped once in action by fighting it directly. In either case, mass socialist organizing is both the vaccine and the cure for fascism, depending on the timeline.
Seems like democrats getting elected does help alleviate fascism then?
Also, what do you mean by “fighting it directly”?
Democrats getting elected doesn’t alleviate the risk of fascism, because as I said, it’s the capitalist class overstepping the legal boundaries. Democrats can legislate all they want against fascism (which they won’t do, let’s be honest), but the point is that capital does not care what is legal, and holds the actual power in society by owning the commanding heights of the economy. It can directly implement fascism without the consent of the DNC.
As for fighting it directly, a socialist revolution prevents the risk of fascism by taking the commanding heights from the capitalist class. In the case of fascism, socialist revolution is what can end it most effectively. In either case, armed struggle is almost certainly necessary, but it’s far cleaner before fascism actually is implemented than after.
There is always a risk of fascism. My point is that fascist policies are implemented and acted upon far more often under R rule than D, and prosecuted more under D than R.
I think you’re still not getting how fascism works. The party in power makes absolutely no difference on whether or not fascism is implemented, and the drive for fascism is related to the ability for the capitalist class to continue to effectively control the population, which decreases in times of economic duress, and which is necessarily a ticking clock in capitalism as it is unsustainable.
You mean like through the media, where republicans are less truthful, own the means to control what news people see, and intervene (as on Twitter and Facebook) to prevent certain information from spreading? Or how Ronald Reagan repealed the fairness doctrine and vetoed its reinstatement?
Or do you mean through economic means, where republicans push to keep costs high for the poor and low for the rich (healthcare, tariffs, tax policy)?
Or maybe directly through force, like with ICE or historical examples like President Harding taking the side of the mining companies in the battle of blair mountain?
I have seen that sentiment directly expressed many times and I’ve seen it implied many times. Still see it despite blocking the shit out of sources of those kinds of opinions. Just today someone said to me “if you don’t think it should be burned down now, what would it take?”