I’m a millenial (maybe even an older one but I won’t admit to that) and I just love typst.
Markdown is just content, but as soon as you want actual layouting, you’re in for trouble; sure you can post-process in pandoc and apply the result to some template, but you’re probably creating an abomination in the process. Oh, and I hate creating slightly bigger tables there. One of your columns got larger? Better adjust all your horizontal lines (at least for grid tables), which might be a pandoc markdown only feature. Yeah, there isn’t one single markdown, but multiple flavors: https://www.glukhov.org/documentation-tools/markdown/gfm-vs-commonmark-vs-pandoc-markdown/
LaTeX? Probably still the king of exact typesetting, but it has a lot of issues:
compile times are really bad (especially with something like lualatex)
TeX which is the foundation of LaTeX maybe isn’t how you’d design such a language today
this includes error messages that aren’t helpful if you didn’t study CS and typesetting
tables (though BIG THANKS to that brave soul who wrote tabularray, it saved my sanity in my last LaTeX project)
Though at least nowadays, you have options for creating accessible PDFs (I’m not a big fan of the idea myself, but there are environments where that support is mandatory, e.g. government contracting)
typst? I wrote my first bigger project in typst that did much more than I could ever do in LaTeX (generation of documentation from OpenAPI spec files) and I had way fewer issues than for LaTeX projects of lower complexity. Yeah there are still some areas that need improvement, but all in all it’s a breeze. With tinymist, writing stuff is just so nice, no waiting for your document to compile for 40 seconds, no, you get an instant preview, or a helpful error message.
I was a bit of a LaTeX guy but I haven’t touched it since I learned typst.
One could say that PDFs allow unique copy protection features, which is true. However, one mustn’t forget that copy protection is yet to deserve it’s right to exist at all.
History of PDF is basically:
We need a standard format to get print jobs over there > Postscript > let’s add feature X > also feature y > make it do thing too! > uh oh, it’s gotten too powerful, security galore > reboot and slim it down > PDF > let’s add feature X > also feature y > …
No. It is designed for print. It is used for screens (that’s the crazy part). Something like HTML or epub is designed for screens. PDF later got extended with some features, that only make sense on screen but the original design is for print and it shows. For example everything has a fixed layout size (like paper). And most of the time the order of words got lost so you can not select text in a meaningful way (something that would not matter if it is printed).
PDF was developed to share documents, including text formatting and inline images, among computer users of disparate platforms who may not have access to mutually-compatible application software.[2]
Development of PDF began in 1991, when Adobe’s co-founder John Warnock wrote a paper for a project then code-named Camelot, in which he proposed the creation of a simplified version of Adobe’s PostScript format called Interchange PostScript (IPS).[1] Unlike traditional PostScript, which was tightly focused on rendering print jobs to output devices, IPS would be optimized for displaying pages to any screen and any platform.[1]
That’s interesting indeed. I knew it was about portability, being right there in the name, but I thought it was about being as compatible everywhere (any device) as possible, then over time also became the defacto way to share a printable document, then that use case waned in popularity since the mid aughts.
pocorgtfo has some pretty cool/scary examples of what a pdf is capable of hiding. One issue actually starts with a boot sector that is a playble game of tetris
pdf is a print and typesetting format for printers. what’s crazy is that we’re using it for something other than that.
Almost as crazy as Adobe continuing to exist decades after purchasing Macromedia when it could not compete with Macromedia’s software on merit.
Personally, I think in dealing with text documents, we should only respect:
Everything else is mental illness.
I’m a millenial (maybe even an older one but I won’t admit to that) and I just love typst.
Markdown is just content, but as soon as you want actual layouting, you’re in for trouble; sure you can post-process in pandoc and apply the result to some template, but you’re probably creating an abomination in the process. Oh, and I hate creating slightly bigger tables there. One of your columns got larger? Better adjust all your horizontal lines (at least for grid tables), which might be a pandoc markdown only feature. Yeah, there isn’t one single markdown, but multiple flavors: https://www.glukhov.org/documentation-tools/markdown/gfm-vs-commonmark-vs-pandoc-markdown/
LaTeX? Probably still the king of exact typesetting, but it has a lot of issues:
Though at least nowadays, you have options for creating accessible PDFs (I’m not a big fan of the idea myself, but there are environments where that support is mandatory, e.g. government contracting)
typst? I wrote my first bigger project in typst that did much more than I could ever do in LaTeX (generation of documentation from OpenAPI spec files) and I had way fewer issues than for LaTeX projects of lower complexity. Yeah there are still some areas that need improvement, but all in all it’s a breeze. With tinymist, writing stuff is just so nice, no waiting for your document to compile for 40 seconds, no, you get an instant preview, or a helpful error message.
I was a bit of a LaTeX guy but I haven’t touched it since I learned typst.
Typst is awesome, I myself maintain my CV in it. Haven’t done anything larger yet. Cool to see it’s getting more adoption!
I love markdown. I take all my work notes in markdown on vim and my coworkers look at me like I have 3 heads.
I then view them in a markdown viewer and I get to interact with the checklists I made 😼
Rock on and watch them miss out on all the enjoyment!
You forgot women.
A woman is not a text document for you to edit at your pleasure and to crumple up and discard if she doesn’t please you. #WomenAsObjects
Plus, PDFs can’t even do the dishes
One could say that PDFs allow unique copy protection features, which is true. However, one mustn’t forget that copy protection is yet to deserve it’s right to exist at all.
I want to be able to make a document without page breaks.
No one prints shit, I just want an endless scroll in Word Docs.
History of PDF is basically: We need a standard format to get print jobs over there > Postscript > let’s add feature X > also feature y > make it do thing too! > uh oh, it’s gotten too powerful, security galore > reboot and slim it down > PDF > let’s add feature X > also feature y > …
I feel like websites tried to do the same with seperating CSS from the DOM, but then the web said, actually how about we invent webasm anyway…
Yes. PDF is an embrace - extended - extinguish job done on PostScript.
It’s not? The p stands for portable, which implies a digital format for software use. Maybe you’re thinking of postscript?
pdf is a postscript container format, yes.
Yep, but mainly meant for computer screens rather than paper, no?
No. It is designed for print. It is used for screens (that’s the crazy part). Something like HTML or epub is designed for screens. PDF later got extended with some features, that only make sense on screen but the original design is for print and it shows. For example everything has a fixed layout size (like paper). And most of the time the order of words got lost so you can not select text in a meaningful way (something that would not matter if it is printed).
Wait till I tell you what they’re doing with JavaScript.
PDF is designed for user interfaces, actually.
you’re thinking of display postscript? i think that was an extension of the original language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_PDF
And yet any pdf reader has one of the largest libraries to render a single format.
actually, you’re kinda right! didn’t know this before, but pdf started as a slimmed-down version of postscript that didn’t support all print features.
Confidently incorrect.Edit: apparently I kinda was actually.
This is funny. They’re correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_PDF
That’s interesting indeed. I knew it was about portability, being right there in the name, but I thought it was about being as compatible everywhere (any device) as possible, then over time also became the defacto way to share a printable document, then that use case waned in popularity since the mid aughts.
pocorgtfo has some pretty cool/scary examples of what a pdf is capable of hiding. One issue actually starts with a boot sector that is a playble game of tetris
that’s what happens when any file with a valid pdf header in it anywhere is a valid pdf…