Hard Pass
  • Communities
  • Create Post
  • Create Community
  • heart
    Support Lemmy
  • search
    Search
  • Login
  • Sign Up
bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 2 days ago

Gorbachev............

lemmy.ml

message-square
9
link
fedilink
79

Gorbachev............

lemmy.ml

bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 2 days ago
message-square
9
link
fedilink
alert-triangle
You must log in or register to comment.
  • HocEnimVeni@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    29
    ·
    1 day ago

    Stalin was a Nazi sympathizer

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      11 hours ago

      A thread. TL;DR no, lol.

      The communists spent the decade prior trying to form an anti-Nazi coalition force, such as the Anglo-French-Soviet Alliance which was pitched by the communists and rejected by the British and French. The communists hated the Nazis from the beginning, as the Nazi party rose to prominence by killing communists and labor organizers, cemented bourgeois rule, and was violently racist and imperialist, while the communists opposed all of that.

      When the many talks of alliances with the west all fell short, the Soviets reluctantly agreed to sign a non-agression pact, in order to delay the coming war that everyone knew was happening soon. Throughout the last decade, Britain, France, and other western countries had formed pacts with Nazi Germany, such as the Four-Power Pact, the German-French-Non-Agression Pact, and more. Molotov-Ribbentrop was unique among the non-agression pacts with Nazi Germany in that it was right on the eve of war, and was the first between the USSR and Nazi Germany. It was a last resort, when the west was content from the beginning with working alongside Hitler.

      Harry Truman, in 1941 in front of the Senate, stated:

      If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don’t want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances.

      Not only that, but it was the Soviet Union that was responsible for 4/5ths of total Nazi deaths, and winning the war against the Nazis. The Soviet Union did not agree to invade Poland with the Nazis, it was about spheres of influence and red lines the Nazis should not cross in Poland. When the USSR went into Poland, it stayed mostly to areas Poland had invaded and annexed a few decades prior. Should the Soviets have let Poland get entirely taken over by the Nazis, standing idle? The West made it clear that they were never going to help anyone against the Nazis until it was their turn to be targeted.

    • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      29
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 day ago

      This is the dumbest thing I’ve read today. Stalin’s USSR defeated the nazi onslaught, destroyed 75% of nazi batallions, while paying the greatest cost in blood to defeat fascism in ww2. The nazis began to be pushed back at stalingrad in 1942, which is why the west realized they needed to open up the western front, because europe would turn red if they didn’t.

      • HocEnimVeni@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        16 hours ago

        This is all true, and it happened right after they got done spit roasting poland together

        • Nemo's public admirer@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          edit-2
          14 hours ago

          Poland was one annexing Czechoslovakia along with the Nazis, right?
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement

          Soviets opposed it, but Britain and France acted as facilitators and ignored the Soviet call to create a united front against the Nazis.

          Well, after seeing how they ganged up on Czechoslovakia like that, it’s not surprising that the Soviets chose to not be the odd one out(markes as next target) and signed a non-aggression pact like those other countries.

        • mathemachristian[he]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          13 hours ago

          award for the ickiest holocaust trivialization I’ve ever read goes here.

  • zarathustra0@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    24
    ·
    2 days ago

    I’m not sure whether this is just trolling or whether you sincerely believe what’s in the meme, so I’m going to push back on it.

    I think pretty much everyone is in agreement that the USSR’s economic model had fallen to shit by the 1980s. Why on earth do you think they would even entertain switching to anything approaching capitalism?

    Ever heard the phrase “We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us” joke? It wasn’t for nothing. Centrally directed economies don’t tend to work very well.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      14 hours ago

      Socialism absolutely works. The issues with the soviet economy following WWII were magnified by the immense devastation the war brought, along with huge sanctions and trade embargoes from the west, all while trying to keep up with nuclear arms development so as to not end up completely obliterated by the US. On top of that, the Khruschevite reforms spelled the beginning of contradictions building within the socialist system, introducing elements in the economy working against each other, further magnified by Gorbachev and eventually Yeltsin.

      Central planning works astoundingly well when properly implemented, but isn’t a perfect panacea. We can look to the immense success it has today in the PRC to see that planned economies do remarkably well, and part of why the PRC is so successful is because they have learned from some of the errors committed by the soviets.

      KPRF membership is skyrocketing, as is soviet nostalgia. Trade with socialist countries is pushing the working class in Russia back to socialist sympathies. Capitalism was and is devastating for Russia.

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      26
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      2 days ago

      Let’s just look at actual academic studies on USSR

      Professor of Economic History, Robert C. Allen, concludes in his study without the 1917 revolution is directly responsible for rapid growth that made the achievements listed above possible:

      • https://web.archive.org/web/20200119044114/https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.507.8966&rep=rep1&type=pdf

      Study demonstrating the steady increase in quality of life during the Soviet period (including under Stalin). Includes the fact that Soviet life expectancy grew faster than any other nation recorded at the time:

      • https://www.jstor.org/stable/2672986?seq=1

      A large study using world bank data analyzing the quality of life in Capitalist vs Socialist countries and finds overwhelmingly at similar levels of development with socialism bringing better quality of life:

      • https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646771/pdf/amjph00269-0055.pdf

      This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development.

      • https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2430906/

      This study shows that unprecedented mortality crisis struck Eastern Europe during the 1990s, causing around 7 million excess deaths. The first quantitative analysis of the association between deindustrialization and mortality in Eastern Europe.

      • https://academic.oup.com/cje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cje/beac072/7081084?guestAccessKey=01c8dd9f-af1c-48b3-b271-eb5d3a45017c&login=false

      Romania, the inustrialization of an agrarian economy under socialist planning

      • https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/888851468333915517/pdf/multi0page.pdf

      Then, we can look at how do people who lived under communism feel now that they got a taste of capitalism?

      • A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country’s economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country’s switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary’s integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process.

      • The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.

      • Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an “illegitimate state.” In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.

      • A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -“during the time of socialism”. The survey focused on the respondents’ views on the transition “from socialism to capitalism”, and a clear majority said they trusted social institutions the most during the rule of Yugoslav communist president Josip Broz Tito. The standard of living during Tito’s rule from the Second World War to the 1980s was also assessed as best, whereas the Milosevic decade of the 1990s, and the subsequent decade since the fall of his regime are seen as “more or less the same”. 45 percent said they trusted social institutions most under communism with 23 percent choosing the 2001-2003 period when Zoran Djinđic was prime minister. Only 19 per cent selected present-day institutions.

      • 75% of Russians have expressed increasingly positive opinions about the Soviet Union over the years. Only a small portion of those surveyed said they had negative associations with the Soviet Union. The economic deficit, long lines and coupons were named by 4% of respondents each, while the Iron Curtain, economic stagnation and political repressions were named by 1% each, the Levada Center said.

      • Adult mortality increased enormously in Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union when the Soviet system collapsed 30 years ago. https://archive.ph/9Z12u

      • Former Soviet Countries See More Harm From Breakup https://news.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx

    • seralth@lemmy.worldBanned from community
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      1 day ago

      Removed by mod

Memes@lemmy.ml

memes@lemmy.ml

Subscribe from Remote Instance

Create a post
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !memes@lemmy.ml

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
Visibility: Public
globe

This community can be federated to other instances and be posted/commented in by their users.

  • 649 users / day
  • 3.38K users / week
  • 4.36K users / month
  • 4.4K users / 6 months
  • 1 local subscriber
  • 52.1K subscribers
  • 355 Posts
  • 1.89K Comments
  • Modlog
  • mods:
  • ghost_laptop@lemmy.ml
  • Cyclohexane@lemmy.ml
  • Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
  • BE: 0.19.11
  • Modlog
  • Legal
  • Instances
  • Docs
  • Code
  • join-lemmy.org