- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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If tons of people voted Democrat in this upcoming election, we’d see more AOC and Mamdamni types in the next one.
When your only viable defense to moral superiority is a strawman rather than accepting criticism of your side and labeling it a “both side are same” rhetoric to shift blame.
I love how the propagandists just keep beating the same drum after the Biden administration has constructed a ceasefire deal which has received unanimous UN Security Council support, and did appear to be moving forward until about 14 hours ago. (Edit: It might still, that’s not over yet.)
It’s almost like if the US just turns its back on Israel, we’d lose our leverage to press a negotiated agreement, which would surely not end with Israel digging in their heels even further. (/s) It’s almost like geopolitics are - wait for it - complicated.
Second Edit: Let’s also not forget that Israel is a nuclear power. What do you think happens when Israel’s back is against the wall, they’re running out of conventional weapons, and Iran and/or other groups decide to take advantage?
It was unanimous because Russia abstained. Putin loves the refocus on Israel while he continues his genocidal war crimes in Ukraine under the US media radar.
For those who haven’t been keeping up, Russia has abducted 700,000 Ukrainian children to be raised as Russians in foster homes since the war began. It’s genocide on a scale 20 times larger than Palestine, and isn’t making national headlines in the US due to the focus on Israel.
The US formally declared this as genocide in the House of Representatives with a 390-9 vote in April by invoking the UN Genocide Convention, and the ICC has issued arrest warrants. Did you see any headlines about that?
Russia is also the largest investor in the sanctioned Iran economy that is directly funding Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis.
I was sceptical of this claim so I did some research - 700,000 is almost certainly too high, but other than that it’s disturbingly true:
The 700,000 number comes from a Russian parliamentarian in 2023, and refers to orphaned and abandoned children Russia has ‘protected’ from conflict zones in Ukraine. A later Russian report walked this back a bit, and claimed that most of this number were children accompanied by family voluntarily escaping the fighting by feeling into Russia.
Obviously we should be sceptical of what Russia says about this, but this is not the same number as the number of children abducted - not even Ukraine alleges it to be this high.
The number of children abducted and forcibly deported was officially reported by Kyev to be 19,000 to 20,000 at the time of the above claim based on the data (nearly 30,000 now). The real number is almost certainly higher - many Ukranian officials believe the actual amount is higher, with one saying it may be into the ‘hundreds of thousands’. A US report in 2022 estimates that Russia has “interrogated, detained, and forcibly deported… 260,000 children, from their homes to Russia”
Even if we take only the low amount that can be fairly positively stated as abductions, that’s nearly 30,000 children. Various reports have shown some of these children being given new Russian identities and false birth certificates, and being put up for adoption in Russia. Some have testified to being indoctrinated and shown pro-Kremlin propaganda.
This broadly constitutes Cultural Genocide - whether it technically is or not is for academics to argue over, because the legal definition of genocide is complicated and so much is unkown.
Whether or not you want to call it a Genocide, it is undeniably a War Crime. The ICC has issued arrest warrents for Putin and Russian Children’s Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova over this.
Regardless of the number, it was deemed genocide in a 390-9 vote in the House in April, by invoking the UN Genocide Convention.
When the US congress deems there to be a genocide, the truth is always the opposite of their conclusion. If the Holocaust was going on today, congress would rule unanimously there to be no genocide.
Lol at basically citing the CIA as your source.
“The news is so focused on children trapped in a war zone but they’re ignoring the real issue we should be focusing on: children being safely transported out of a war zone.”
Russia is taking Ukrainian children, placing them in foster care, and putting them up for adoption to be raised as Russians. This is the definition of genocide.
Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:
- Killing members of the group
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
And yet not a peep from these “Genocide Joe” people. They’re either Russian disinformation agents, or useful idiots.
Idk why you’re saying “not a peep” when it’s pretty much all we ever talk about in these parts.
It’s almost like if the US just turns its back on Israel, we’d lose our leverage to press a negotiated agreement, which would surely not end with Israel digging in their heels even further. (/s)
How is this distinct from the current situation, where Israel has killed at least 35,000 people, is starving around a million more, shows no signs of changing course, and also we are giving them bombs to carry it out?
The time to start applying gentle pressure was about 8 months ago.
I’m absolutely voting for Biden and everyone should, because he is the best viable candidate on literally every issue, including Palestine.
That said, he has openly and loudly taken Israel’s side for months. As a result, he’s made himself an avatar for all the other US institutions that are openly against any criticism of Israel or support for Palestinians. Even if he has secretly been doing everything he can to stop the killing all this time—which I doubt—he had still fucked up massively when it come to avoiding the blowback from other groups’ attempts to crush anyone who speaks out, including agencies his administration controls.
It’s almost like if the US just turns its back on Israel, we’d lose our leverage to press a negotiated agreement
No kidding huh, I can’t believe people don’t see this. You want to influence Israel? You can’t do that if you cut off communication and shun them.
Not continuing to provide them with weapons of war while they are actively committing genocide is not cutting off communication and shunning them.
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Both sides do suck. but only one is trying to get an orange dictator elected. I’m still voting Biden. Democrats aren’t perfect but it’s the only choice we have.
You elect Biden to live another day to fight him, you vote for trump and you shoot yourself in whatever genitals you have before we go full dictator for life, immunity for all crimes (and none of those things for you)
This. I f*cking HATE having to vote for Biden. I’ve hated voting for Democrats for the last 20 years. But I’ll vote for him this year because right now, our choices are between boring corporatists and 100% concentrated evil. I may hate my government but I love my country and I don’t want it to end.
The part I don’t get is complaining about a politician being boring. Isn’t that a good thing? If a politician is doing their job, admittedly a huge if, there’s no need for drama, outrage, noise
If your country is in a good state then yes, boring is the way to go. But if your country is an open dumpster fire then maybe you need something a little less sedate.
I’m definitely in the opposite side of that. If my country is an open dumpster fire, thaeb boring is exactly what we need. Let’s put those fires out by fixing things to just work. Lets start by firing any politician/ administrator who thinks their job is to create drama and invoke outrage, and replace them with people who can fill the role professionally
Fair enough. But I’m not talking about drama. I’m talking about change. I can appreciate that sitting in a slowly boiling pot of water may seem preferable to getting tipped into the fire but a big part of your problem is that too many are fed up with being slowly boiled alive and most of those are clueless about what to do about it so are thrashing about causing the pot to tip. Boring is partly what got you into this position.
both sides aren’t bad.
one side is bad. the other side is a comically evil, fucking nightmare that is going to make sure all future generations for the foreseeable future will suffer things that can be avoided by voting for the “bad” side.
don’t be stupid. one side is banning abortion, is going to go after simple contraceptives next, and will certainly ban gay marriage as soon as possible. their obsession with trans people is just a foot in the door.
No.
Don’t be stupid don’t vote for procorporate genocide supporting trash in the Democrat primaries.
This is about the general election. You are right about the primaries.
we’re not talking about primaries.
i checked your history and you’re trying so hard. I’d be really surprised if you weren’t a Russian troll.
If they are a Russian troll, you are falling for the bait.
If they are not, you are insulting someone on your side for being less-than-enthusiastic about the state of the Democrat Party.
Both sides are bad, votes third party.
Third side is bad too!
“both sides” arguments exist to remind us that neither is our friend. Yes, there are clear differences between the two, but I’m not going to sit here and pretend that one is the “good guys” and ones some unfathomable evil entity.
Neither side is my friend, and I aim to remember that. It doesn’t mean I’m going to not vote. It doesn’t mean I’m going to encourage others to not vote. It’s simply an expression of “I am voting now under duress. None of these options appeals to me, but I must participate in the system lest I be consumed by it.”
Boy this rhetoric sounds familiar. “Democracy is under attack by Republicans”. Oh right, it’s the exact same goddamn thing Democrats have been saying for the last 15 years. And yet even though they’ve been in power a significant part of that time, somehow we keep inching towards fascism.
At some point you realize that the only real question is do we want fascism next week, or do we want fascism next month? And while I agree that voting for Drumpf is a much worse choice for the country, maybe if Democrats actually did stuff to make every day citizens lives better then maybe it really wouldn’t be much of an argument.
even though they’ve been in power a significant part of that time
Since 1981 Democrats have had control of the Presidency and Congress a whopping 4 years. One 2 year period under Clinton and one under Obama. That’s without factoring in the ability to fillibuster in the Senate. In over 40 years they’ve only had control 10% of the time.
maybe if Democrats actually did stuff to *make every day citizens lives better
That period of filibuster-proof control during Obama’s term is why we have the ACA. It was ~70 days and they passed the largest healthcare overhaul in generations.
Remember, Democrats cannot achieve anything unless they have the Presidency and a veto-proof majority in both houses of Congress, and even then only if they compromise to the right. The Republicans mysteriously only need the presidency or the slimmest of majorities in either house of Congress to push their agenda with no need to compromise.
If you don’t see how people are unable to vote for a Democratic party that is shamelessly supporting genocide you have a problem.
Regardless of whether or not you are ok with actively voting for a staunch genocide supporter, you should be able to intellectually understand why people can’t approve the Democratic party’s unconditional genocide support.
No. They have plenty of voters. I’m so tired of this liberal bashing of people with fucking empathy and a tired deposition towards the apathetic unhelpful political parties in charge, as your way to get more votes.
I get that we have a binary decision with our presidency election but no, this is not an effective method other than to piss off people you are essentially stating straight up you think of as lesser.
That’s an hyper-simplist take, self-serving if the author is a Democrat tribalist.
A Biden victory will have two effects:
- It solves the Trump problem for the next 4 years.
- It makes the DNC conclude that even outright support by their sitting President and Candidate with weapons and ammunition for a Fascist regime committing Genocide along ethnic lines is not an impediment for lefties to vote for a DNC nominated Democrat Presidential Candidate as long as the other side’s candidate is worse. This means that in the next election the next Democrat candidate is unlikelly to be better and will possibly be worse. It also doesn’t solve the problem of a somebody-like-Trump or, worse, an intelligent version of Trump, being a candidate with a chance of winning in subsequent elections.
So what’s at stake is a Trump victory now (what Trump might or not do once in power is mainly speculation, and the more extreme theories being pitched by people who stand to gain if their candidate wins instead of Trump, have to be taken with a pinch because they’se self-serving political propaganda) versus what will happen in subsequent elections.
(The whole “what might Trump do” uncertainty is what actually makes the whole thing a complex and trully fucked up choice: if one knew with absolute certainty that Trump would end even the flawed thing that passes for Democracy in America, the choice would be an obvious “vote Biden” even at the risk of there only be even worse choices in subsequent elections, because if Trump won now there would be no subsequent elections).
Frankly I don’t see any scenario were post-Trump the Republicans become less Fascist and hence the DNC becoming less evil because their upper evilness limit which is “the other guy” gets pushed down, and suspect that who the Republicans will put forward next is a more intelligent version of Trump.
That being so, the only way to push the DNC to in the future put forward less evil candidates (or to not intervene in the Primaries to stop such candidates, like they did to stop Sanders) is to make them fear that they will lose the leftwing vote and hence never again win Presidential elections, and that means Biden has to lose and Trump has to win.
It’s a fucking tough choice. (Sorry for the expeletive, but it’s what better reflects the trully, utterly fucked up nature of the whole “choice”)
I’m happy I’m not an American and am not forced into such Hobson’s Choice and can thus just intellectually analyse the whole thing without an associated rollercoaster of emotions.
Just remember, people: the US is always one election away from sudden, irrevocable demise. But if you elect the conservative with a D next to their name, then America gets to continue its slow, but inexorable socioeconomic decline as the executive and legislative representatives continue to ignore the policies of the progressives who held their nose to keep them in power. Asking for anything more is both foolish and, even worse, selfish.
As a conservative democrat myself, who will never be forced to compromise any of my ideological positions because the status quo of every election being “too important to lose” is at this point part of the core design of our two party political system, I can say with confidence that if I were ever faced with the choice of voting between an outright fascist and a socialist candidate, that I would definitely vote the only way that made sense to preserve the corporate oligarchy on which the fragile veneer of American democracy rests. Which is to say that I would vote for the fascist, obviously.
If you want to actually vote for progressive candidates, then you are free to move to Mexico and start farming avocados for the cartels.
