Libs thinking we’re on their side, until the point we reject electoralism and US imperialist propaganda. Then label as as “tankies”.
Campists thinking we’re on their side until the point we reject “AES” and “left unity”. Then label as a “liberals”.
Anarchists are clearly the rare species of “liberal tankie” 😆
shocking that turbolib pugjesus would be totally ignorant of what anarchism is.
I took college courses on comparative politics. It wasn’t until I read The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin that I really understood what anarchy and communism are. I really love that book. It does a great job of portraying that world from both a biased, personal lens and then again from outsiders perspectives.
That being said - until we have a planet dedicated to it, I believe any attempt at anarchy will just get overrun by coordinated assholes with guns (read: states).
never heard of that book, I’ll add it to my reading list;
++ recommend. Dont expect that there isnt criticism of the anarchist state
anarchist state? how can a state be anarchist?
Read the book…
Finding a way to defend yourself without reinventing the machinery of the state is certainly one of the larger practical problems facing anarchism.
Anarchists can defend themselves just fine. We just need to learn not to trust MLs and libs to do it with as they’ll backstab anarchists at the first opportunity they have to grab power. This sort of rhetoric is like claiming that democracy is a failed concept in the middle ages, because democracies “can’t defend themselves from monarchies” or some shit.
What are you talking about? The only currently extant anarchish communities are in places where states are weak. Anarchists in places with highly centralised states tend to get attacked by everyone, and that’s a serious problem you can’t just vibes away.
Wars, even ones you win, are a tremendous drain. States tend to suck at fighting non states, but that doesn’t mean it’s conducive to human flourishing for the non state people. States are also moronically optimistic about their ability to “productively” war.
This isn’t some fringe concern. There’s any number of proposals you can read on anarchists library about how to deal with this.
It has nothing to do with being failed. If you wanted to start a democratic collective in manorialist times then yes, figuring out how not to get invaded was very important.
You’re not saying anything new, anarchism can’t happen in times where the system is strong. It can happen when the system is in crisis if we set the relevant groundwork. And when it does, we can defend ourselves from the likewise weakened states.
Honestly it makes me understand why tankies exist. I don’t agree with them, but I get it. Just like I get capitalism. They both suck but they’re both right for different reasons.
Lemmy has just ruined the word tankie but if you are referring to the more militant/dogmatic MLs then I would agree that I think a search for “realistic” solutions drives some of the more concerning/ardent believers.
anarchists being called tankies made me shit my pants laughing
Self-proclaimed anarchists who literally deny the Uyghur Genocide and Holodomor being… what? The true defenders of anarchism?
Wasn’t this under the post about someone denying Uyghur genocide?
“Denying” is a strong hyperbole to “overblowning.” Pugjesus is literally tankiejacketing instance administrators in an attempt to coagulate enforcement with his fash dynamics.
Instead of collaborating means of liberation, he’s not ending American DeathCamps in his own yard. Something about an a log stuck on your eye and all that.
This was posted in MeanwhileOnGrad. There’s a level of dedicated anti-socialism there that’s a bit beyond using even the most pejorative use of ‘lib’.
/c/MeanwhileOnFash™
thanks I’m stealing this for !libjerk@anarchist.nexus for a bit
If nothing else, anarchists need to rebrand and come up with a new name for the same philosophy. “Anarchism” as a term has long been thoroughly poisoned. People who aren’t deep into political theory at best dismiss it as an edge lord philosophy.
There’s no term that will not be poisoned. We saw it happen with innocent things like DEI, BLM, Woke and so much more. changing names is not achieving anything, but if you want you can use libertarian socialism.
I mean its pugjesus man, no one that dedicated to criticizing leftists isn’t a cryptofash
He punches left, then wonders why leftists don’t like him.
Impossible, his other favorite things are the Roman Empire (specifically not the Republic) and the universe of 40k!
As we all know, normal liberals like Rome and Warhammer, and not fascists on Twitter.
Tbf there’s plenty of lefties that love both Roman history and 40k.
They just don’t also spend the rest of their time attacking left.
Removed by mod
Yeah but its like
nearly all they doa core part of their identity. It’s not that they punch left its how often they do it, how they do it, and the rhetoric they have shown themselves to be comfortable with.The whole Nazis Lives Matter thread a while back with the Nuremberg Trial critics I figured would’ve been enough for people.
The what now?
Threads back during the German elections.
One spillover into this community:
https://lemmy.world/post/25608764
A number of users there have since changed accounts and/or instances, in some cases multiple times.
Point being: all the dedicated tankie bashing is put into stark context when the opportunity to bash Nazis is met with a kind of resistance they’d permaban a tankie over.
Holy shit do I hate German liberals. Tell me none of your family had to die because the oppressor rapist, pillagers, murderers and genociders dressed in uniform thought of them as dirt to be “cleansed” for their own “Lebensraum”; tell me without telling me.
Half of Eastern Europe wasn’t wiped out, 6 million Jews were not gassed and 27 million Soviet citizens (only 9 million of which were from the Red Army) didn’t die, just so you can whine about how your great grandparents “didn’t have a choice” and how fascists deserve(d) “human rights”; no, the only good fascist is a dead one.
Fascist deserve only one right: the choice between the mineshaft and the bullet.
And what infuriates me most: There are few things the liberals will defend as ferociously as the political/“human” rights of the fascists. I’m not even gonna start about how liberals and thus capitalism are the reason fascism gets to exist in the first place…
A good video of Parenti on this topic (timestamped, but you are welcome to watch the whole 4 minutes, very good video)
I’m gonna leave you with two quotes by Brecht:
Those who are against Fascism without being against capitalism, who lament over the barbarism that comes out of barbarism, are like people who wish to eat their veal without slaughtering the calf.
Hatred of oppression still distorts the features, Anger at injustice still makes voices raised and ugly. Oh we, who wished to lay for the foundations for peace and friendliness, Could never be friendly ourselves.
Nazi bar anecdote. You’re tankies until you do something about them.
Libs thinking we’re on their side, until the point we reject electoralism and US imperialist propaganda. Then label as as “tankies”.
Sorry for finding your Uyghur genocide denialism and Holodomor denialism to be abhorrent?
I’ve known you’ve rejected electoralism from the very start. We had conversations early in the Reddit exodus about that, even. I regarded it negatively, but also didn’t think it made you a tankie.
Simping for genocide because it’s done by red-painted fascist states, on the other hand? That makes you a tankie apologist, at the least.
Lol, tell me you’re mald without telling me you’re mald: Trolling through histories of people you’re arguing about to downvote everything
“How dare you comment on a post about you”
Yes, how dare.
Not what I said, but you’ve never let that stop you before :D
Not what I said
Oh, so you were just saying random bullshit with no relation to reality in response to my comment?
So you didn’t go through my profile and found this post today? You just randomly stumbled into a 4d old post as we were arguing?
So you didn’t go through my profile and found this post today?
No, actually. I searched my name and found myself mentioned in this thread.
disengage
There is no such thing as left unity.
orgs with differing views work together all the time including many flavours of unions, religious organizations, and lefty organizations. Just because people can’t agree on a particular theoretical point online doesn’t mean they don’t unite around causes irl.
Looking at the current political climate with a unified right and a disorganized left I’d have to disagree.
Liberals (for a certain value of the left) have shown that when they say “left unity” they mean “do what we say or else” for two hundred years and we’re not going to forget about it now that they’re reaping the consequences of their actions.
So my trans and deported friends are collateral damage in this lesson we’re being taught?
The Ukrainians and Palestinians too?
your trans friends are already arming themselves and joining socialist rifle clubs. this may come as a shock to you, but nobody is waiting on liberals getting their shit together long enough to stop hugging nazis.
oh, and for the last time, liberals are not leftists.
There is no such thing as left unity.
Liberals aren’t leftists, and you know that. Just keep repeating your thought terminating cliche though. Clearly it works since you haven’t absorbed this info.
Get a gun and join a liberal militia or stop whining. You’re a majority group, right? Defend your democracy.
Oh, wait, those don’t exist.
Wonder why.
