It’s amazing but emotionally frustrating. The problem with your partner actually always being right is that you feel like you never win or that your perspective may not be properly heard. The flip side is you don’t have stupid arguments thst you didn’t bring the stupid to and that’s also awesome, but rough on the self esteem. Definitely requires learning better emotional processing so you actually understand the need or emotion at the core of what you’re saying/requesting
Yeah, among other things. It’s an aspect of the relationship that required quite a bit of emotional growth early on and still requires maintenance work. I mostly commented because it’s the sort of thing that sounds awesome when you don’t have it, is awesome once you’ve learned to have it, and can really exacerbate any self esteem issues and highlight struggles communicating issues you’re experiencing when you’re new to it.
I likely just projected my experiences of the tumultuous early stages of what has grown into a deeply happy marriage onto this post because in it I saw a younger version of myself struggling not to catastrophize and worry that the best person I ever met for me would realize I wasn’t good enough for her after a conflict.
A lot of people are assuming that “having citations” is equivalent to “being right”. It’s not, it also includes one of the most frustrating cases of them being wrong.
Like for example if the citations all come from the bible. Or if the argument is about something personal like wanting more kids.
Or if the sources they’re citing are outdated. I’ve gotten into a few arguments with my wife over topics that were covered in her degree, but new evidence has contradicted what she was taught.
Like wood cutting boards being more sanitary than plastic. Her biology textbook said plastic was more sanitary, which has been disproven.
Luckily she very rarely uses the, “I have a master’s degree so I know more than you,” card, mostly because I don’t challenge her unless I know I’m right.
The whole “I have a degree” is an appeal to authority logical fallacy anyways, with this being one example why (people just lying is another, though hopefully that one doesn’t come up in a marriage).
And yeah, I’ve also gone through the “once preferred plastic cooking tools, now tries to minimize the amount of contact between plastic and my food”. And I wonder if it made it into that biology textbook the same way it once made it to the top of my preference list: stupid assumptions based on the look and feel.
Btw, if you don’t use ice very often and it ends up sitting in the tray for a long time before you do use it, I highly recommend metal ice cube trays. I’d notice a white film that wouldn’t melt and would float on top of water I put plastic trayed ice in. It had a bad taste… not a strong flavour, but a mildly unpleasant one. I still see white on ice from the metal tray, but it’s just trapped gasses because it doesn’t leave a film on the water and tastes just like frozen water instead of plasticky.
I also notice that frozen veggies smell like that flavour when they are still in the bag. Hard to tell how much of that ends up in the food because the food has a stronger flavour.
I was using water from my RO filter and still am. I noticed it with other ice trays at other locations, but thought it was just something that happened to ice sitting in the freezer rather than coming from the ice tray itself, until I got one of those silicone sphere ice trays that only has a tiny bit exposed and noticed it was worse instead of better. It was also my first non-white ice tray, and I could clearly see the white film that remained on the silicone, which prompted me to buy the metal tray.
Fridge ice makers probably aren’t an issue because the ice doesn’t sit in the tray for very long (which also might be metal). They can sit in a plastic tub for a while before being dispensed, but they don’t have full contact with that plastic, and ice in the middle wouldn’t even have any contact until ice shifts around.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it depends on the type of plastic the tray is made out of, too. Like the silicone being worse might have been due to the plastic itself as much as the higher amount of contact with the ice.
And even without that, the metal one is just nicer to use. It is a normal tray with a metal grid attached to a hinged handle that easily breaks the ice. I’ve had a plastic tray partially snap while trying to twist the ice out, though even when they didn’t break, the ice would also sometimes refuse to break free.
Well yeah, it’s the emotional come down from it. Being mad isn’t just a logical state, its a biochemically based emotion. It doesn’t go away immediately, you gotta take a breather and process your emotions as they cool off. As that’s happening you can feel steamrolled or like you aren’t being listened to because the reason for the argument isn’t actually the thing, it’s that you had a need and you got into it about the thing because that seemed a way to get the need met. And like, yeah, that’s a skill you need to learn regardless, but it’s basically a form of relationship where there’s no excuses and you feel like you’re always the unreasonable one.
And yeah, this has been how the first two or three years of my relationship with my wife forced me to git gud. Way better than stupid fights, but yeah it was not easy as someone who had had a disorganized attachment style that leaned anxious.
The problem with your partner actually always being right
Unlikely, they’re probably picking their fights, and/or doing prior research. Either way, if you can’t face being wrong, you can’t learn, and that’s on you. Do the emotional work until you can and learn to research yourself, few things are black and white, your side may well have good arguments and references itself, you’ll never know until you look.
This will likely be either very good or very bad for your relationship.
Yeah that’s what the end of my comment was about. It also involved a lot of both of us learning to communicate and emotionally process better. We also have moved towards treating the fact finding portion of disagreements as neutral and mutual while framing our understanding of the facts with how certain we are included. “I thought I remembered it being this, I’m going to check” is way more constructive than “no it’s this, here’s where Wikipedia says you’re wrong”
I’m the kind of guy who will look stuff up. I think it’s really important to admit when you’re wrong and the other person was right. Don’t move goal posts or claim you misunderstood. Just own it.
Like I was having a debate with my partner about if it was faster to go all the way up and over, or make a lot of turn-right then turn-left. I thought the ladder was faster because it approximates a straight line. She was like no that’s crazy. Eventually I found that’s called Manhattan distance and she was right, and I fully admitted defeat.
Love this. People who display like trophies the times they were wrong have learned one of life’s simple truths: there are no trophies for being right, just crappy knockoffs of the learning process one forgot.
Yes, Manhattan distance exists, it has a name. But I don’t understand how having a name makes it faster “a straight line distance” also has a name, euclidean distance. And always euclidean ≤ Manhattan.
So if on both routes you go at the same speed, it is faster to take the one of the euclidean distance.
Well, we were literally walking in Manhattan when it came up, and couldn’t take the euclidean straight path. We could only walk on the grid of streets.
(This is setting aside factors like waiting to cross, or a busier street)
Yes, in a grid where the Manhattan distance is the minimum one, taking a single 90° turn is the fastest, since that path will have the length of the Manhattan distance.
However, it’s not the only path. The “ladder” one you said will be the same length.
While we are at it, if you wanna search for more. The same flawed assumption of “a ladder approximates a straight line” can also lead to π=2. Since you can enclose a circle in a square (Wich has perimeter 4R), then fold the corners recursively so there is a “stair” along the circle’s perimeter. That “stair” would have a length of 4R, but the circle’s perimeter is 2πR.
Your perspective is irrelevant when it comes to facts. It only matters when it’s about your personal experience, and there are no sources you can cite to contradict those experiences.
I’ve gotten in the habit of being wrong occasionally on purpose so my wife is less frustrated. Kinda like how drug dog handlers will plant the occasional drug if it’s been too long without a bust, so the dogs don’t get depressed.
EDIT: Not on people. That’s a totally separate thing. I’m talking about officers posing as suspects. Probably thinking of bombs anyway.
My gf has awful logical reasoning skills. Which leads to her being wrong on many small arguments that can easily be proved with simple logic.
There is no amount of reasoning that will make her change her mind. So in the end, she is always right because there is no other option. That is incredibly frustrating and I end up being neither “right” nor happy.
There is no amount of reasoning that will make her change her mind. So in the end, she is always right because there is no other option. That is incredibly frustrating and I end up being neither “right” nor happy.
that’s why you break up. that isn’t a good relationship. you are going to be miserable and it’s only going to get worse.
I’m much happier single and learning, than dating a stubborn/stupid person who makes both of us miserable with their horrible decision making, who expects me to be the only adult in the relationship. Especially as I want to have kids too, and it would be many times worse.
Yeah, it’s tough. But she has in the past shown that she tries to fix toxic traits of her, so I hope with time I can eventually teach her how to use logic for reasoning.
Luckily neither of us want to have children. Because I can handle not being right and I don’t depend on her. But a child would live a nightmare.
I think that stance only really holds when talking about arguments where you can’t reasonably convince the other person. Like, I’d be frustrated if my wife was conceding arguments just to make me happy, I don’t want to stay wrong. But I have had the thought when coming down of “why is it that I’m always the unreasonable one”, and given that I was coming down from an argument it was not charitably toned.
Being right or happy is more about someone being in the wrong. If you think it’s normal to wear shoes in the house and your partner doesn’t, it doesn’t matter that your area is largely pro shoe in home, if it matters to your partner the wise choice is to accept that their happiness with the situation is more important to you than winning the fight or even getting to keep wearing shoes at home.
When you have a partner like the librarian you also often have to ask if you want to win or be right. And if the answer is win you need to really ask yourself why, because if your partner is right and you’d still rather win, something is wrong. Hopefully it’s that you’re like me and needed some maturity and to learn to express needs before they show up in an unrelated argument.
That’s kind of awesome actually
It’s amazing but emotionally frustrating. The problem with your partner actually always being right is that you feel like you never win or that your perspective may not be properly heard. The flip side is you don’t have stupid arguments thst you didn’t bring the stupid to and that’s also awesome, but rough on the self esteem. Definitely requires learning better emotional processing so you actually understand the need or emotion at the core of what you’re saying/requesting
that’s a problem with your ego, not the relationship.
the point of a relationship isn’t to ‘win’. if you are trying to compete with your partner you’re going to be miserable.
Yeah, among other things. It’s an aspect of the relationship that required quite a bit of emotional growth early on and still requires maintenance work. I mostly commented because it’s the sort of thing that sounds awesome when you don’t have it, is awesome once you’ve learned to have it, and can really exacerbate any self esteem issues and highlight struggles communicating issues you’re experiencing when you’re new to it.
I likely just projected my experiences of the tumultuous early stages of what has grown into a deeply happy marriage onto this post because in it I saw a younger version of myself struggling not to catastrophize and worry that the best person I ever met for me would realize I wasn’t good enough for her after a conflict.
I mean, if your partner’s right and has demonstrated it, you could just update your perspective and be right too…
A lot of people are assuming that “having citations” is equivalent to “being right”. It’s not, it also includes one of the most frustrating cases of them being wrong.
Like for example if the citations all come from the bible. Or if the argument is about something personal like wanting more kids.
Or if the sources they’re citing are outdated. I’ve gotten into a few arguments with my wife over topics that were covered in her degree, but new evidence has contradicted what she was taught.
Like wood cutting boards being more sanitary than plastic. Her biology textbook said plastic was more sanitary, which has been disproven.
Luckily she very rarely uses the, “I have a master’s degree so I know more than you,” card, mostly because I don’t challenge her unless I know I’m right.
The whole “I have a degree” is an appeal to authority logical fallacy anyways, with this being one example why (people just lying is another, though hopefully that one doesn’t come up in a marriage).
And yeah, I’ve also gone through the “once preferred plastic cooking tools, now tries to minimize the amount of contact between plastic and my food”. And I wonder if it made it into that biology textbook the same way it once made it to the top of my preference list: stupid assumptions based on the look and feel.
Btw, if you don’t use ice very often and it ends up sitting in the tray for a long time before you do use it, I highly recommend metal ice cube trays. I’d notice a white film that wouldn’t melt and would float on top of water I put plastic trayed ice in. It had a bad taste… not a strong flavour, but a mildly unpleasant one. I still see white on ice from the metal tray, but it’s just trapped gasses because it doesn’t leave a film on the water and tastes just like frozen water instead of plasticky.
I also notice that frozen veggies smell like that flavour when they are still in the bag. Hard to tell how much of that ends up in the food because the food has a stronger flavour.
I wonder if it could be your water source? We have a fridge ice maker and I’ve never experienced that, but the water line does have its own filter.
I was using water from my RO filter and still am. I noticed it with other ice trays at other locations, but thought it was just something that happened to ice sitting in the freezer rather than coming from the ice tray itself, until I got one of those silicone sphere ice trays that only has a tiny bit exposed and noticed it was worse instead of better. It was also my first non-white ice tray, and I could clearly see the white film that remained on the silicone, which prompted me to buy the metal tray.
Fridge ice makers probably aren’t an issue because the ice doesn’t sit in the tray for very long (which also might be metal). They can sit in a plastic tub for a while before being dispensed, but they don’t have full contact with that plastic, and ice in the middle wouldn’t even have any contact until ice shifts around.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it depends on the type of plastic the tray is made out of, too. Like the silicone being worse might have been due to the plastic itself as much as the higher amount of contact with the ice.
And even without that, the metal one is just nicer to use. It is a normal tray with a metal grid attached to a hinged handle that easily breaks the ice. I’ve had a plastic tray partially snap while trying to twist the ice out, though even when they didn’t break, the ice would also sometimes refuse to break free.
Now that you mention it, I do remember experiencing it with silicone trays, but I mostly used them to freeze blended veggies into cubes for smoothies.
Well yeah, it’s the emotional come down from it. Being mad isn’t just a logical state, its a biochemically based emotion. It doesn’t go away immediately, you gotta take a breather and process your emotions as they cool off. As that’s happening you can feel steamrolled or like you aren’t being listened to because the reason for the argument isn’t actually the thing, it’s that you had a need and you got into it about the thing because that seemed a way to get the need met. And like, yeah, that’s a skill you need to learn regardless, but it’s basically a form of relationship where there’s no excuses and you feel like you’re always the unreasonable one.
And yeah, this has been how the first two or three years of my relationship with my wife forced me to git gud. Way better than stupid fights, but yeah it was not easy as someone who had had a disorganized attachment style that leaned anxious.
Often times people are incorrect about specifics, but correct or valid in the point they were attempting to make.
It’s obnoxious to deal with analytical or biased people who can never look past the surface level.
Unlikely, they’re probably picking their fights, and/or doing prior research. Either way, if you can’t face being wrong, you can’t learn, and that’s on you. Do the emotional work until you can and learn to research yourself, few things are black and white, your side may well have good arguments and references itself, you’ll never know until you look.
This will likely be either very good or very bad for your relationship.
Yeah that’s what the end of my comment was about. It also involved a lot of both of us learning to communicate and emotionally process better. We also have moved towards treating the fact finding portion of disagreements as neutral and mutual while framing our understanding of the facts with how certain we are included. “I thought I remembered it being this, I’m going to check” is way more constructive than “no it’s this, here’s where Wikipedia says you’re wrong”
I’m the kind of guy who will look stuff up. I think it’s really important to admit when you’re wrong and the other person was right. Don’t move goal posts or claim you misunderstood. Just own it.
Like I was having a debate with my partner about if it was faster to go all the way up and over, or make a lot of turn-right then turn-left. I thought the ladder was faster because it approximates a straight line. She was like no that’s crazy. Eventually I found that’s called Manhattan distance and she was right, and I fully admitted defeat.
Just a friendly correction in case it’s not an autocorrect/STT issue: it’s latter
Love this. People who display like trophies the times they were wrong have learned one of life’s simple truths: there are no trophies for being right, just crappy knockoffs of the learning process one forgot.
I don’t understand your conclusion.
Yes, Manhattan distance exists, it has a name. But I don’t understand how having a name makes it faster “a straight line distance” also has a name, euclidean distance. And always euclidean ≤ Manhattan.
So if on both routes you go at the same speed, it is faster to take the one of the euclidean distance.
Well, we were literally walking in Manhattan when it came up, and couldn’t take the euclidean straight path. We could only walk on the grid of streets.
(This is setting aside factors like waiting to cross, or a busier street)
Ah. I originally missread your original comment.
Yes, in a grid where the Manhattan distance is the minimum one, taking a single 90° turn is the fastest, since that path will have the length of the Manhattan distance.
However, it’s not the only path. The “ladder” one you said will be the same length.
While we are at it, if you wanna search for more. The same flawed assumption of “a ladder approximates a straight line” can also lead to π=2. Since you can enclose a circle in a square (Wich has perimeter 4R), then fold the corners recursively so there is a “stair” along the circle’s perimeter. That “stair” would have a length of 4R, but the circle’s perimeter is 2πR.
I’ve gotten in the habit of being wrong occasionally on purpose so my wife is less frustrated. Kinda like how drug dog handlers will plant the occasional drug if it’s been too long without a bust, so the dogs don’t get depressed.
EDIT: Not on people. That’s a totally separate thing. I’m talking about officers posing as suspects. Probably thinking of bombs anyway.
Yeah…sure…that’s why.
It may have been bomb-sniffing dogs now that I think of it 😉
Similarly, they did basically the same thing on 9/11 for dogs trained to find survivors when they weren’t finding many.
You can either be right, or be happy. Sounds like the librarian wants to be right
That’s not true at all.
My gf has awful logical reasoning skills. Which leads to her being wrong on many small arguments that can easily be proved with simple logic.
There is no amount of reasoning that will make her change her mind. So in the end, she is always right because there is no other option. That is incredibly frustrating and I end up being neither “right” nor happy.
that’s why you break up. that isn’t a good relationship. you are going to be miserable and it’s only going to get worse.
I’m much happier single and learning, than dating a stubborn/stupid person who makes both of us miserable with their horrible decision making, who expects me to be the only adult in the relationship. Especially as I want to have kids too, and it would be many times worse.
Yeah, it’s tough. But she has in the past shown that she tries to fix toxic traits of her, so I hope with time I can eventually teach her how to use logic for reasoning.
Luckily neither of us want to have children. Because I can handle not being right and I don’t depend on her. But a child would live a nightmare.
I think that stance only really holds when talking about arguments where you can’t reasonably convince the other person. Like, I’d be frustrated if my wife was conceding arguments just to make me happy, I don’t want to stay wrong. But I have had the thought when coming down of “why is it that I’m always the unreasonable one”, and given that I was coming down from an argument it was not charitably toned.
Being right or happy is more about someone being in the wrong. If you think it’s normal to wear shoes in the house and your partner doesn’t, it doesn’t matter that your area is largely pro shoe in home, if it matters to your partner the wise choice is to accept that their happiness with the situation is more important to you than winning the fight or even getting to keep wearing shoes at home.
When you have a partner like the librarian you also often have to ask if you want to win or be right. And if the answer is win you need to really ask yourself why, because if your partner is right and you’d still rather win, something is wrong. Hopefully it’s that you’re like me and needed some maturity and to learn to express needs before they show up in an unrelated argument.