- cross-posted to:
- canada@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- canada@lemmy.ca
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Costco broke up with VISA so, it’s possible. Re-establish the Templars again as the new money lenders from old.
When was that? I still can’t use my credit cards there unless they are visa
Europe’s $24 Trillion
Great, now nobody knows how much that is (other than a lot).
100K is a lot. 24T is unfathomable. :)
I’m all for a European system like this, but the only downside I currently see is that using Wero wouldn’t provide any protection in the same way that a credit card does, unless I missed that on the Wero website.
Give me the consumer protection of a credit card and I’ll sign up to Wero or whoever!
Does Visa/Mastercard actually offer any protection themselves? When I’ve had to reverse debit card transactions due to fraud or otherwise, I always just called/reached out to my bank and they did it. I never communicated with Visa/MC. Since this system is pretty much SEPA in a trench coat, I’m pretty sure the same would work here.
Visa/Mastercard requires all cardholders, cardholders’ banks, merchants, and merchants’ processors to follow the comprehensive set of rules for disputed transactions. That way the dispute process tends to be uniform across different banks and across different merchant/payment processors.
The network sets the rules, while the banks implement those rules on behalf of the cardholder and the processor implements those rules on behalf of the merchant.
So replacing the network will require a comprehensive replacement for the network’s dispute resolution rules (assigning who is responsible for paying when certain things happens) and procedures (how a cardholder can initiate a dispute and how that gets resolved).
Yes they do offer actual protections.
A debit card while using visas processing network is still your banks account and their responsibility. And it’s your personal money. Unlike a credit card which is NOT your money and not your sole liability. You are jointly liable with a credit card and solely liable with a debit card.
A credit card the account is with visa, tho it may be managed by your bank thanks to partnerships and bank end integration. Depending on the circumstances you actually will be directed by your bank to contact visa or who ever directly or be forwarded by your bank.
Debit cards are not credit cards. This seems to be a weird hang up people can’t seem to understand. Doubly so when they are from Europe. It’s always struck me as odd.
A credit card the account is with visa, tho it may be managed by your bank thanks to partnerships and bank end integration. Depending on the circumstances you actually will be directed by your bank to contact visa or who ever directly or be forwarded by your bank.
Do you have a source on this? Because it directly contradicts EVERYTHING I have ever experienced. Visa is a payment processor, but more as a middleman. I’ve even been redirected (through automated systems) back to my bank when making a purchase using a Visa card. Any disputes are handled by bank. You can’t get a Visa card without going through a bank. My debit card has a MC logo and can be used as such, but it’s also my ATM card.
Your point about debit vs credit is valid, though possibly more convoluted than needed. On credit, it’s someone else’s money in limbo, until the bill is paid.
Yeah - that’s why I always use credit if I can. If someone steals my credit card, I’m protected. The money doesn’t even leave my account, so I don’t have to worry about losing access to my funds for a few days while everything is worked out.
Aha, interesting. I never had a credit card because it would be too stressful for me to take out micro-loans for stuff. Still weird that it’s visa/MC money and not your bank’s though.
That’s a very good point - it isn’t Mastercard or Visa involved in the card protection. Thank you!
So I guess I’m actually saying: if Wemo offer credit, then count me in!
what protection credit card provide?
In the UK the credit card company are joint liable for any purchases over £100.
So if I buy X from company Y for £100, and company Y fails to deliver, or goes into administration, or whatever, I go back to the credit card company and get my £100 back. Or looked at another way, I don’t pay them the £100 and they swallow the cost.
didn’t know that thanks
I’m glad to see Visa suffer, but I’m pretty concerned that Wero requires a proprietary phone app. There is no way to shop using Wero without this proprietary software.
It doesn’t require an app. When you pay, you select your bank and it will redirect you to a page that the bank provides. My bank provides a QR-code I can scan with their banking app, but it also offers a log in form to pay.
So I guess it is based on what your bank is willing to provide.
This is based on my experience with ‘iDeal’ the predecessor of wero.
Is Wero OpenSource ? Between me & you, I really hope GNU-Taler gets mass adoption they are on version 1.3 I think
Yeah, i was thinking the same thing. Changing one evil for another.
Finally someone is doing something about this. I worked in finans and people wouldn’t believe the amount of money that goes to America because we use EMV and whatever the payment transaction system was called.
Is there any way to use wero without handing out my mobile phone number to everyone? I’d prefer handing over IBAN or some alias over phone number.
Wero is basically just SEPA real time transactions under the hood, so you can just use your bank app to transfer via IBAN.
that means it’s almost useless then, because SEPA offers absolutely zero fraud protection. Once you sent the money, it’s impossible to get it back even if you contact the bank 1 second later.
Exception: some hacker did some social engineering and posing as the ministry of defense, persuaded one of the richest men in italy to send him a bribe via SEPA. In that case the banks were able to reverse it one week after. Normal people instead gets only a FUCK YOU.
How to make this competitive vs. current, American owned networks?
Put a microtax in every financial transaction going out of the EU.
Hello, friends in civilized lands, especially those of you who work at financial institutions…
Some of us in the states are excited to watch you do some damage to the entrenched middlemen that have been skimming from all of us for so long. Please do consider letting us sign up for the new stuff. Our money is still worth something, for now!
I agree 100% but also this is like when you watch your brother punch your dad to make him stop hitting your mom, and you know you’re going to get the shit kicked out of both of you later for it.
…unless one of your grabs the crowbar and goes for broke…
Hey blue states…
This is like that son that was sexualy abused by his dad for years, then killed and ate him.
Seconded.
i would gladly make the switch if for no other reason than just playing a tiny part in screwing over Visa and MasterCard.
Why? Cause fuck em! That’s why!
Just as long as I don’t have to carry a bunch of CCs because I don’t know what store takes what. Then they will all have different policies, security issues, fraud protection will vary, etc.
As said in the article, in Western Europe you can already use Wero to bypass those and it is spreading in Europe. In France, for the past 40 years, the “CB” network has been available for every basic bank payment card, which is also Independent from the Americans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB_Bank_Card_Group I think the new initiative will spread, unify and simplify things.
Have you guys heard about the player’s club card?
Who loves ya, baby?
I’ve got the Players With Yourself Club card
We’re all born bald, baby
What is GNU Taler?
Man I wish I lived in the EU
Right? The ecconomic benefits, the lack of financial catastrophy from suffering a paper cut, living wages, acessible mass transit, and the political stability. It must be like waking up every day in a dream.
Unfortunately the combined forces of US and Russian propaganda machines try very hard to ruin it for us, and they see some success in depleting EU membership support in polls and various political unrests
“Politic stability”
Hahaha…Good joke…
To be fair, it isnt as bad in the USA but you can’t really say it is really stable. The far right and conservatives are getting stronger and the left/right trench is getting bigger
The US is exceptionally stable. Their current administration has been demolishing their country for an year and they’re still in power, with support from the other branches of government.
Having lived in a couple of countries in Europe, from The Netherlands which has Proportional Vote system and a thus a multitude of small parties to Britain with a First Past The Post system like the US and thus pretty much a Two Party System, I’ve concluded that at least in Politics stability is just like standing water - it invariably turns into a swamp.
We need some amount of constant change to bring up and flush out the rot that innevitably accumulates in the murky waters of a system were power is always in the hands of a subset of people who are all in the same social circles, went to the same schools and whose sons and daughters marry each other.
Not “Daily Revolution”, just regular change so that any funny business going on outside the public eye risks being brought to light, destroyed and the guilty people punished because power has changed has to people who aren’t mates of the crooks that did it.
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We may don’t get multi 6-figure jobs, but we also don’t have to pay 5-figures to visit a healthcare place and fear for our lives by being at will employed. And the CoL is probably also way lower in comparison.
I’d rather continue living here than in USA
More money ≠ more purchasing power
Right. The Weimar Republic had their population making substantially more cash than at any point before 1923. They uaed to be able to take wheelbarrows of cash to the grocery store.
Yeah but we pay way less for housing and health.
At least in Europe housing is at the moment proportionally to incomes just as bad as in the US.
Totally agree on Health, though.
In my country the vast majority of people can’t afford to live alone, because housing’s too expensive for a single person. It has always been so, traditionally you lived with your parents until you got married, then with your families’ help you’d get somewhere to live, if you were well off enough they’d help you start a mortgage, etc.
Nowadays families can’t set aside that kind of savings anymore, for the most part, so the help they can provide is severely reduced.
Shit was rough for Millennials, I have no idea how Gen-Z’ers manage, as it seems to be even worse now.
It’s true for software engineering because the salaries in NA are insane due to the insane profits those companies are making. But for the average job, life is better.
We generally pay less
Serious question: what is stopping you?
It’s not a simple thing. You really need some personal tie like ancestry or marriage, go to a university, or be sponsored for work.
I don’t think that’s true. Granted I am from here but just to come and start to work us citizens find it way easier than other nationals. Take it in small steps. Most countries allow you to apply for citizenship after 5 years. You just have to find work and accommodation. Some countries do require proof of ancestry like Ireland but there are many others that dont. Some even have free universities like the Nederland or Germany and they teach in English.
I may not know all the subtleties so don’t quote me on that!
Unies are usually not free for non-citizens. At least not where I live.
i am not saying all all free but you can find free if you need to:
https://www.student.com/articles/countries-american-students-study-free-europe
and even if you don’t find, the tuitions costs are lower than US and even UK now. have a look maybe you can find something that peaks your interest. the rest of the world is a lot more diverse than the US.
Love to see it.
Anything that diminishes Visa and MC’s power is probably a good thing.
come on canada start taking notes
A lot of countries in Europe already have their own country-wide payment systems.
What we’re seeing now in Europe is the stage where those multiple country-specific systems become interoperable and a new international payment system appears.
Canada only needs the kind of thing which has been not just available but actually dominant for decades in countries like The Netherlands and Portugal.
At least we have e transfers and debit unlike down south. I for one will be jumping on the first non us credit card however.
As an American, I just may do the same.
You do realize why we’re scrambling to get a European credit card, right? I mean what’s going to stop us from cutting Americans off when Trump decides to invade San Marino?
Oh I hope that they name it something mildly silly. Like “Lone’y” or “broke buckz”
We have debit. And etransfer for things like PayPal or Venmo.
How does debit work for fraud? Are banks more willing to refund when theres5fraud? In the US it feels like it’s mostly on the user to bear
How about JCB?
