What do you mean “worked”? What is “working” to you?
I care more for material outcomes so when we talk about whether or not something is “working” I want to define what that means. Has progressive politics fallen off a cliff in the 2010’s on? Yep. But where was it before that? What had society scored? How many accomplishments can I list towards a better future should I list? It was activism and pushing for marginal progress that got us everything from gay marriage to 8-hour-workdays to repairing the hole in the ozone layer.
There are a lot of things we want for a better world, and we’re simply not getting it all at once, nor fast. So again, your choices are the following:
Armed rebellion and social revolution akin to what China did, which is making any tankies that made it down this far already get erections, but this is not a fair or just outcome unless you’ve decided that individual rights and cultures are not a progressive value after all. Also, see previous: we have no army nor mandate, and even if we did it, we would have to live next to tens of millions of people who wanted none of this.
Social reform through rebuilding community and reforming politics through actual involvement and making incremental, boring-ass advances which mean all that shit you probably hate like sitting through city council meetings about the distribution of funds for various infrastructure projects while you sit there looking out the window at a world burning. It’s not the fun path, it’s often not even the winning path… but the reason we’ve lost so much ground in the 2010’s on is precisely because people have lost interest in trying. We all checked out of community and now everything is a shit pile which took years to pile up, and somehow we expect we can shovel it all away in one go because suddenly we’re in a huge hurry because now we’re noticing how bad it’s gonna be.
Check out. Stop caring, work your 9-5 and collect your 401k, and despite all else happening in the world, the chances of you living a long, happy, healthy life with normal outcomes is very, very high. Why are your chances of living a long, fruitful, happy life without political involvement so high? See above: people worked for it, pushed for it, demanded better for their country and got us here.
If we all just choose #3 we will have nothing, and if we choose #2 we will probably have serious, horrible losses but we will also have gains. Our species simply is not going to be what we both wish it was, we are going to be fighting ourselves forever so we need to change mindset that we can “fix” things. You can’t fix the nightmare of greed and capital and genocide any more than you can “fix” having to do your laundry. It is forever.
So understanding that our overnight success is probably a childlike fantasy akin to the right’s obsession with the Rapture or race-wars or whatever, would you be able to sit through that city council meeting on fund distribution without clawing at your desk and looking out the window? Because that’s where we need to get to and we need to get there in a hurry because that proceduralism that we all hate is a necessary evil, because those comptrollers are going to be the ones who will find fraud first, and that fraud is what is holding up all the corruption above it. We need engagement and actual passion, and if New York can do it and elect an actual passionate leader who wants better outcomes, we can do it anywhere but it takes effort towards boring, small steps forward.
Oh come on. There are countless options you’re just ignoring between sitting through a city council meeting and a protracted people’s war. I even gave you examples of how progressive politics was advanced in the past. If you don’t want to learn the lessons of history then why should anyone listen to do? Are you actually that allergic to any sort of politics that inspires and mobilizes people? You can call anyone who wants to do more than sit in a city budget meeting a “tankie” and then pat yourself on the back all day, it won’t make your argument any less wrong. I mean seriously, the last meaningfully economic progressive policy was the creation of Medicare and Medicaid which happened in the 60’s and yet you’re acting like the decline started in the 2010s. But yeah sure, progressivism was doing so well during the Reagan and Bush eras. Lol
I can’t spell it out across such a fine-tooth list of qualifiers to appease your specific vision of what you want to see happen, but whatever it is, it doesn’t succeed without actual effort towards the less-flashy, more nuanced and balanced direction for policy and representation. My examples were broad-speaking and not literal and… now i’m done, this is just going to get pedantic and derailed about nine-million specifics and examples and counter-examples of this and that, and I have community to build. Have a good one.
What do you mean “worked”? What is “working” to you?
I care more for material outcomes so when we talk about whether or not something is “working” I want to define what that means. Has progressive politics fallen off a cliff in the 2010’s on? Yep. But where was it before that? What had society scored? How many accomplishments can I list towards a better future should I list? It was activism and pushing for marginal progress that got us everything from gay marriage to 8-hour-workdays to repairing the hole in the ozone layer.
There are a lot of things we want for a better world, and we’re simply not getting it all at once, nor fast. So again, your choices are the following:
Armed rebellion and social revolution akin to what China did, which is making any tankies that made it down this far already get erections, but this is not a fair or just outcome unless you’ve decided that individual rights and cultures are not a progressive value after all. Also, see previous: we have no army nor mandate, and even if we did it, we would have to live next to tens of millions of people who wanted none of this.
Social reform through rebuilding community and reforming politics through actual involvement and making incremental, boring-ass advances which mean all that shit you probably hate like sitting through city council meetings about the distribution of funds for various infrastructure projects while you sit there looking out the window at a world burning. It’s not the fun path, it’s often not even the winning path… but the reason we’ve lost so much ground in the 2010’s on is precisely because people have lost interest in trying. We all checked out of community and now everything is a shit pile which took years to pile up, and somehow we expect we can shovel it all away in one go because suddenly we’re in a huge hurry because now we’re noticing how bad it’s gonna be.
Check out. Stop caring, work your 9-5 and collect your 401k, and despite all else happening in the world, the chances of you living a long, happy, healthy life with normal outcomes is very, very high. Why are your chances of living a long, fruitful, happy life without political involvement so high? See above: people worked for it, pushed for it, demanded better for their country and got us here.
If we all just choose #3 we will have nothing, and if we choose #2 we will probably have serious, horrible losses but we will also have gains. Our species simply is not going to be what we both wish it was, we are going to be fighting ourselves forever so we need to change mindset that we can “fix” things. You can’t fix the nightmare of greed and capital and genocide any more than you can “fix” having to do your laundry. It is forever.
So understanding that our overnight success is probably a childlike fantasy akin to the right’s obsession with the Rapture or race-wars or whatever, would you be able to sit through that city council meeting on fund distribution without clawing at your desk and looking out the window? Because that’s where we need to get to and we need to get there in a hurry because that proceduralism that we all hate is a necessary evil, because those comptrollers are going to be the ones who will find fraud first, and that fraud is what is holding up all the corruption above it. We need engagement and actual passion, and if New York can do it and elect an actual passionate leader who wants better outcomes, we can do it anywhere but it takes effort towards boring, small steps forward.
Oh come on. There are countless options you’re just ignoring between sitting through a city council meeting and a protracted people’s war. I even gave you examples of how progressive politics was advanced in the past. If you don’t want to learn the lessons of history then why should anyone listen to do? Are you actually that allergic to any sort of politics that inspires and mobilizes people? You can call anyone who wants to do more than sit in a city budget meeting a “tankie” and then pat yourself on the back all day, it won’t make your argument any less wrong. I mean seriously, the last meaningfully economic progressive policy was the creation of Medicare and Medicaid which happened in the 60’s and yet you’re acting like the decline started in the 2010s. But yeah sure, progressivism was doing so well during the Reagan and Bush eras. Lol
I can’t spell it out across such a fine-tooth list of qualifiers to appease your specific vision of what you want to see happen, but whatever it is, it doesn’t succeed without actual effort towards the less-flashy, more nuanced and balanced direction for policy and representation. My examples were broad-speaking and not literal and… now i’m done, this is just going to get pedantic and derailed about nine-million specifics and examples and counter-examples of this and that, and I have community to build. Have a good one.