Fortunately voting isn’t mutually exclusive to any other flavor of activism. So, unironically: yes, please do vote, as often and informed as you’re able to.
Light up some billionaire’s warehouse on the way home if you want, but voting is easier and safer than pretty much any offer method of driving some rapid reform, so start with voting, and take whatever other action you feel still needs to take place.
Lots of hate on voting lately… Why? Use every tool we’ve got.
I mostly agree. I see nothing wrong with voting, though I understand the folks who didn’t vote in the last presidential election. I don’t think voting matters all that much outside of local elections but do what you will. It’s getting a lot of hate rn because it has felt very ineffective at preventing fascism and people are seeking alternatives.
Well, according to the logic present in this very thread, some people have tried organizing, but they haven’t single handedly stopped fascism, ergo organizing labor is useless, just like voting.
There’s nothing we can do that doesn’t require a large amount of people to organize and invest time, effort and money. Of all the options, voting is (because of laws) still the cheapest, most legal, least likely to get you fired option. And we can’t even manage that.
I’m sorry but jumping to ‘organizing is useless’ makes absolutely no sense.
Why do you think you even have a weekend or benefits in the first place? The gains made by the militant labor organizing in the last century.
If organizing was useless, governments wouldn’t spend all the immense time and money to break, weaken, and dissolve unions. They do so because they recognize the real threat organizing has.
I’m not saying organizing is the one thing we need. There is no singular thing. A united front is needed. Every avenue both inside and outside the system. Co-opting the Dem party to be a party for the people, outside organizations like DSA to keep politicians accountable, labor organizing to wield our collective power to ensure our demands are met, voting, coalition building, mutual aid, International organizing, ect.
This is a class war, we have no luxury of choosing a single angle of attack.
I share that frustration, but discouraging voters from showing up isn’t going to help anything: focus your anger at the actual fascists, not the ballot box.
Actually achieving some meaningful reform is a complex project that requires every tool in the box. If you run into a stripped screw, don’t get mad at the screwdriver for not working, but instead reach for your other tools to use alongside the driver. Might need to grab it with a vicegrip (like a general strike) or whack it with a hammer (like a molotov cocktail), but don’t just discard the screwdriver - the screws aren’t all stripped, and the project is a lot bigger than just the one striped screw. If the next screw is also stripped, by all means light up another, uh, hammer… but the screwdriver is the easiest and most effective option for the parts of the project that aren’t already fubar.
So… advocating for alternatives when they’re called for: absolutely necessary! Throwing the screwdriver away: unnecessary and critical error.
Unfortunately voting requires electoralist action, which takes a lot of effort and motivation from those doing it (literally year-long amount of man-hours) which absolutely is mutually exclusive with actually useful things
No, we’re just talking about actually voting here. Don’t add a bunch of stuff. You don’t need to canvas to vote.
And in the context of the thing written, what action do you think people bitching in this thread are genuinely going to take? How many walmart firebombers are among all the terminally online leftists here?
Problem is in a lot of states voting does jack shit unless you’re on the side of the party the majority of your state votes for. In 2024, 70% of the registered voters voted and the conservatives won by a massive margin. Protests happen every once in a while here, but if you say anything at these to encourage other forms of political movement and you’re quickly shut off cause they’re afraid you’ll hurt the movement.
Fortunately voting isn’t mutually exclusive to any other flavor of activism. So, unironically: yes, please do vote, as often and informed as you’re able to.
Light up some billionaire’s warehouse on the way home if you want, but voting is easier and safer than pretty much any offer method of driving some rapid reform, so start with voting, and take whatever other action you feel still needs to take place.
Lots of hate on voting lately… Why? Use every tool we’ve got.
I mostly agree. I see nothing wrong with voting, though I understand the folks who didn’t vote in the last presidential election. I don’t think voting matters all that much outside of local elections but do what you will. It’s getting a lot of hate rn because it has felt very ineffective at preventing fascism and people are seeking alternatives.
What we need is labor movement power like work stoppages, but far more organizing is needed before we can do that effectively
Absolutely, convincing liberals of this necessity is imperative
Well, according to the logic present in this very thread, some people have tried organizing, but they haven’t single handedly stopped fascism, ergo organizing labor is useless, just like voting. There’s nothing we can do that doesn’t require a large amount of people to organize and invest time, effort and money. Of all the options, voting is (because of laws) still the cheapest, most legal, least likely to get you fired option. And we can’t even manage that.
I’m sorry but jumping to ‘organizing is useless’ makes absolutely no sense.
Why do you think you even have a weekend or benefits in the first place? The gains made by the militant labor organizing in the last century.
If organizing was useless, governments wouldn’t spend all the immense time and money to break, weaken, and dissolve unions. They do so because they recognize the real threat organizing has.
I’m not saying organizing is the one thing we need. There is no singular thing. A united front is needed. Every avenue both inside and outside the system. Co-opting the Dem party to be a party for the people, outside organizations like DSA to keep politicians accountable, labor organizing to wield our collective power to ensure our demands are met, voting, coalition building, mutual aid, International organizing, ect.
This is a class war, we have no luxury of choosing a single angle of attack.
I share that frustration, but discouraging voters from showing up isn’t going to help anything: focus your anger at the actual fascists, not the ballot box.
Actually achieving some meaningful reform is a complex project that requires every tool in the box. If you run into a stripped screw, don’t get mad at the screwdriver for not working, but instead reach for your other tools to use alongside the driver. Might need to grab it with a vicegrip (like a general strike) or whack it with a hammer (like a molotov cocktail), but don’t just discard the screwdriver - the screws aren’t all stripped, and the project is a lot bigger than just the one striped screw. If the next screw is also stripped, by all means light up another, uh, hammer… but the screwdriver is the easiest and most effective option for the parts of the project that aren’t already fubar.
So… advocating for alternatives when they’re called for: absolutely necessary! Throwing the screwdriver away: unnecessary and critical error.
Unfortunately voting requires electoralist action, which takes a lot of effort and motivation from those doing it (literally year-long amount of man-hours) which absolutely is mutually exclusive with actually useful things
What are you talking about?
The thousands of work hours spent canvassing, phone calling, fund raising etc rtc
No, we’re just talking about actually voting here. Don’t add a bunch of stuff. You don’t need to canvas to vote. And in the context of the thing written, what action do you think people bitching in this thread are genuinely going to take? How many walmart firebombers are among all the terminally online leftists here?
Problem is in a lot of states voting does jack shit unless you’re on the side of the party the majority of your state votes for. In 2024, 70% of the registered voters voted and the conservatives won by a massive margin. Protests happen every once in a while here, but if you say anything at these to encourage other forms of political movement and you’re quickly shut off cause they’re afraid you’ll hurt the movement.
Propaganda. It’s easier to deactivate the opposition than to convert it.