Yeah, this isn’t so much about men/women, as it is about money. Like there was a story on here recently about the connection to Ariane Rothschild, and how she basically introduced him to all the power people / helped establish his honey trap – story claimed her name showed up like 12k times in the files, but little/nothing’s happened. Her name is basically verboten in all media… because she’s stupid rich. And Ghislaine is currently alive in a min security prison, with a dog – while Epstein was killed. So, like in terms of the ‘main people’ perpetrating the crime, the guy in the couple got killed, the woman got a dog.
At least the rich men are getting named and semi shamed, like Gates needing to eat crow for fuckin on the island and passing an STD to his then wife.
It’s not about men/women because women are helping men make victims of little girls and are getting awayt with it. Did I get that right?
Yes there’s a class element, they prey on girls without the material means to fight back - but that doesn’t negate the sexism, it just reinforces it
The image that was posted is literally arguing that “Women who have their photos leaked lose careers”, but “Powerful men who can be linked to epstein get to stay in power”, as the grounds for declaring “inequality! sexism!”.
I pointed out that in the Epstein case, looking at people who are named in the files (so same general control group), there are women like the Rothschild chick, who are getting off scott-free. I also pointed out that looking at two people who committed the same crimes (Ghislaine and Epstein were partners in all this afterall), the guy got killed, the woman got a dog, to highlight that the ‘inequality’ often favours women – particularly when they, too, have money. Really, Ariane Rothschild getting off scott free, just like every other Epstein named collaborator, is enough of a counter to the ‘attempted’ point from the image – as it shows that the getting off scott free isn’t necessarily happening because they are ‘men’, since ‘women’ too are without accountability.
I agree that inequalities exist, but I don’t agree that it’s as rampant as the left seems to think, nor do I think “ALL” inequalities boil down to gender shit. And I don’t agree that looking at the accountability for those named in the epstein files is a good place to try and highlight gender inequalities (the actual crimes committed were generally against women, but that’s not what the image is highlighting – and if we want to look at that sort of thing, through a gender lens, then it’d be fair to bring up the lopsided casualties in things like war and drafts, where men’s deaths far outnumber women, and basically no one in the epstein class/rich gives a shit. It’s sorta like politicians arguing “Those who suffer most are the wives and children left behind” when a guy gets killed in a war - as though the guy dying isn’t sorta a bad result from the POV of the individual, one that’s a bit worse than not having a husband/dad around.
Besides, if you want to talk about careers ruined by phone leaks/images on devices – there are plenty of men who’ve had careers ruined by a dick pick, or even just an accusation of sexually inappropriate behaviours - though these consequences generally fall on the poors/commoners. So even the “Women who have their photos leaked lose careers!” is sorta bullshit. Hell, Kim Kardashian is practically famous because her private shit got “leaked”. Name a dude who’s made a billion off of a leaked dick pick. Heck, even that Coldplay cheating scandal – the guy lost his job, the HR lady he was cheating with kept hers.
That’s like saying slavery wasn’t about race but economics because you had black slave owners
Scoping and context matter – I’m not saying sexism doesn’t exist, nor am I saying that the crimes committed weren’t based on sexually predatory men exploiting vulnerable women. But the argument the image is making is just shit, and conflating different topics, botching the framing and diminishing the statements ability to persuade me as a reader/consumer.
Using your own response to highlight it: “slavery wasn’t about race but economics because you had black slave owners”.
You didn’t properly frame that as American slavery, you’re presuming the context is just known to your reader, and that they’ll inherently agree with your point as you view it as politically correct – you’re being intentionally lazy with your word choice, but that makes the statement easily challenged/ignored. It’s sorta like virtue signalling – you don’t need to “prove” something will benefit an individual, if you can convince them its for some nebulous greater good. To your lazily framed statement, one could ask: What about Rome? What about Korea, one of the areas with the longest history of slavery? How about the First Nation groups in the PNW, who prior to “colonization” ruining their culture, were known as prolific slave traders with about 25% of their band being slaves from other FN bands? “Slavery” itself isn’t about black and white, nor is it specifically about race. America’s racism, is America’s racism – slavery or no, as many non-whites have found out in the years since slavery was “abolished” in that country.
The image is leaning on virtue signalling, saying “sexism is bad”/“women are disadvantaged” to present a disjointed argument about gender inequality. The examples they provide are shit: in the two ‘things’ they put forward, having photos leaked online and being named in the Epstein files, if you look for cases with the two genders, there are differences but it’s not a solid ground to stake a position. There are both men and women in the Epstein files, as conspirators/contributors/victimizers, who are all getting off nearly scott free (gotta quantify that a bit, as it’s mostly US people getting off totally scott free, the US people in power specifically). And if you look at photo leaks/mis-sent photos, there’s lots of examples of men getting shafted, and there are examples of women turning huge profits off it/gaining careers from it.
Like if the base argument is “men got off scott free in epstein, women lose careers in photo leaks”. Then pointing out women got off scott free in the epstein files, and that men lose careers over photo leaks, you could accurately rebut that argument simply by saying “women got off scott free in epstein, men lose careers in photo leaks – they are equally avoiding accountability in the files, and both losing careers to photo leaks, so where’s the inequality?”.
The image isn’t arguing that “the epstein files was a giant multi-nation syndicate setup to exploit vulnerable women for the benefit of sexually predatory rich men, while also gaining blackmail material on those men”. It’s arguing “Men have no accountability from Epstein stuff, while women lose careers for a photo leak, therefore sexual inequality!”. It’s a shitty argument, even if you agree that sexual inequality exists.
Once again, Lemmy proving that tunnel vision and framing Every.Single.Issue through class struggle exclusively betrays a fundamental sense of empathy and understanding of any other topic whatsoever
I get it. You guys are experts on leninist theory. There are other issues happening concurrently. We can work to solve class inequality without dismissing the struggle of women or those faced by minorities. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Tin hat on: I am starting to think this dismissive strategy is intentional. There feels like an undercurrent of self sabotage intended to dilute the efforts of building a movement around class consciousness by deliberately undermining others struggles. The intended goal of this self sabotage is to never have to address concrete issues. It seems that as long as we remain in the realm of the abstract, we can keep the discourse aloof and disconnected from the real effects of what si happening through action. I can’t prove this of course. The more likely reality is Lemmy is overwhelmingly men, and men in tech. Their frame of reference is… Not the greatest when it comes gender issues
Tin hat contd: in other words, by keeping the discourse in the abstract birds eye view of theory and never addressing concrete issues (such as gender inequality), the conversation can self replicate endlessly without an exit path towards actionable items.
Tin hat off
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Even the fact that the only associate behind bars is a woman should tell you something
Exactly. She deserves jail but so do a lot of other people
Well the other one who was behind bars was a Jew who either committed suicide very suspiciously, after an attempted strangulation by a corrupt cop who was his cell mate on murder charges, or got suicided whenit was inconvenient for him to exist for the pedo in chief among many others. So of the two arrests both were the procurers and monsters (as well as the most disposable on a social level), but the clients conveniently never knew the guy and the files are lying.
There’s proof Matt Gaetz paid a teenager for sex, and literally nothing was done.
I used to write cheeky notes in the memos of checks to friends and family (eg “for: eye hole widening” or some shit like that) until I learned the bank and your accountant read that shit and if it looked or smelled funny they were professionally and ethically obligated to report it.
Now I make sure it’s embarrassing just not reportable. (eg “for: butthole removal, 2nd attempt”)
The Metoo movement didn’t even scratch the surface. Every single grown women I have had the privilege to talk to has been sexually assaulted in their lifetime. My wife, my mother, and now my daughters.
The backlash from the Metoo movement has been insane. Cops, prosecutors, and judges have ensured that there will be no justice. The President is a damn child rapist for Christ’s sake. We are absolutely fucked when it comes to gender inequality.
Still waiting for the Equal Rights Amendment to be ratified.
Thanks for having women’s back ❤️
my personal lifehack is posting my own nudes publicly on mastodon so there’s nothing to leak 😎
Mine is posting them in a medical textbook so people pay to see them
I’m tired boss
If you have time to be tired you have time to stuff envelopes with crickets.
Yup, post is 100% correct, gender inequality is all around us. It’s even in the thread with us right now.
Do not paint the whole world with an American brush.
America allows criminals to exist and abuse the world so long as they have money. Why do you think the worst kinds of people go to the United States in order to get rich?
At this point it’ll end up in the hands of the people…
Lots of girls make career exactly by selling nudes lol. Pretty funny
Are you saying that you don’t understand the concept of “consent”, or that you find it ironic that while erotica/porn exists, some women’s lives can be ruined by their nudes being leaked?
Are you pretending or do you really think that some mens lives can not be ruined by nude leaks? There is a long list of women whos nudes got leaked without consent and nothing happened to them.
Kinda ironic incels online were arguing it was the other way around too >:(
I hate to defend incels on any point…,. you know what, as much as I feel compelled to play devil’s advocate, this time I’m not gonna.
Look, we live in a complex world where there are 2 sexes for human beings, with some people having traits of both to varying degrees, that leads to physiological, hormonal, genetic, and neurological differences that make every person unique and therefore we will not have a world that treats everyone fairly or equally as that would be close to impossible. What we do have is the mental capacity to cooperate and learn and trying to blame sex or gender for differences when there is a more obvious cause for the issue, wealth disparity, then that is the problem. In gender terms male, female or other, sexual orientation, or whatever we have seen time and time again that rich assholes get away with things for a very long time, in recent times you’ve had Ellen degeneres (abusing employees), Trump (need I elaborate?), Epstein (see trump), Harvey Weinstein, almost every politician above a certain level, and all sorts of people with social standing, power, or money able to get away with small things at first then escalating until the foundation of their reputation collapses, and maybe they are able to come back from that or maybe not. If you look on the lowest rungs of the pay scale I would assume there is sexual harassment or holding of pay raises from managers against their poorest employees but the poorest still make the same. Are there societal or biological incentives that means a woman makes more in tips as a waitress then a waiter I’d say yes and those factors also play into men probably grouping together to help move up in corporate jobs historically. I can tell you right here and now though that the richest people on earth do not need you to help some of them get pay parity with others when they both make millions or times more than you will in your life, or neither of the men or women at the top will likely ever spend time in anything other than a low security prison after bilking people of their retirement savings if they see jail time at all, and going into war of the sexes or race war territory is the easiest way they can divide us. Yes finding ways of making inequality lesser is a good thing, just don’t let it be a tool of separation and division against ourselves when unity is most needed.
You’re seriously claiming the lack of accountability during an ongoing fascist takeover proves women have it worse…
I don’t think anyone is arguing gender inequality doesn’t exist. Also this is class/power issue not a gender issue.
How do you even separate gender issues from class and power issues?
You control for gender by class…? Are you OK?
It can be both. Both things can exist simultaneously. They are not mutually exclusive. I hope you understand that
A whole sex trafficking ring of little girls and people are saying it’s not a gender issue. Lol okay
Who did that though
The person I responded to said:
Also this is class/power issue not a gender issue.
Yeah the women in the epstein files are also getting away scott free. And maxwell absolutely is compared to the punishment she should be getting.
People definitely do that. You just aren’t talking to the right people.
Was about to post exactly this and am glad this is on the top.
While there are gender disparity, Epstein isn’t really about gender it is about ruling class having separate justice system than rest of us.
There might be gender issues like less women being as rich and powerful, but that’s secondary.
Self reflection
