I was using comey as an example of democrats trying to be good faith and avoid seeming biased, and Republicans not caring and smearing them anyway. I think democrats have learned that lesson, with the majority now voting directly on party lines (minus the few who are just Republicans, like Chuck Schumer).
Hillary won the popular vote in the primaries in 2016, blame the voters for saying “Bernie old socialism bad, can’t vote for him!!” And then voting for Trump. She definitely mishandled documents as did every president, but no president had such an incredible witch hunt for a mistake every president in the history of the US has made, that was loudly broadcast on national news, called out by the head fbi agent, that is just insanity.
The Obama number was because they now did formal “removals” where previoue administrations did informal “returns,” i.e. at the border or recently crossed in, which massively inflated the numbers. Not to say there weren’t some terrible situations with immigration under him. In his second term they changed focus with ICE to avoid people who had been settled, and mainly go after those who had committed crimes or recently crossed. Again there were definitely some hugely negative parts to it, but Biden had no such draconian policy. Even the worst things done by Obama pale in comparison to what Trump is doing, and unlike Obama who changed course, Trump is tripling down, trying to kill as many brown people as possible, and we’re only 2 years in.
Gay marriage was not that popular during the Obama years, there has been a massive shift in that in the past ~15 years or so. When I was growing up, bullying people for being gay and saying it’s unnatural and wrong was extremely common, now you really only hear that from very religious or very extreme Republicans. In about 2010 that shift started to swing over to most people don’t mind it, and the president and senate will reflect their constituency. I’m not saying he was a saint on these issues, but Republicans are, with no exaggeration, literal demons who want trans and gay people to stop existing.
I really don’t think codifying roe v wade would have made any difference with this supreme court, they would just say “it’s unconstitutional cuz it kills a life lol” and it’s gone. They probably should have anyway, but it would’ve just been symbolic, the Republicans do not care about rules at all.
I mean I can’t really argue on that, democrats seem to have a “the guardrails will hold” attitude while the Republicans tear through them any chance they get. I’ve been immensely disappointed several times, like when some “”“democrats”“”" caved during the government shutdown, what was the point of holding out at all then?
I’m just saying one side is being literal demons, and one side is not resistant enough to those demons. Democrats in power = sometimes very good policy, sometimes very bad policy. Republicans in power = ruin everyone’s lives, tear families apart at a massive scale, destroy the environment, get into wars, support dictators, kill American citizens, defraud the government, cheat more evil people into power. Even if your single ticket issue was israel palestine, Trump is literally netanyahu’s lapdog, and basically doubled their funding.
You mention Schumer being a Dem who acts like a Pub, as if he is a fringe member of the party and not a DNC leader. How can you view Democrats as “sometimes good policy, sometimes very bad policy” when someone like Schumer has been in leadership for decades? The fish rots from the head, so to speak.
I think your framing of Obama (and then Biden)‘s immigration policies is generous to the point of dishonesty. Let’s assume you are right and Obama’s second term was gentler and wiser and only went after bad guys; and we both agree on the definition of a bad guy. Biden’s term, after seeing what Trump did with ICE, made no effort to put in guardrails while continuing Obama’s second-term enlightened immigration actions (again, for the sake of argument, I’m agreeing with your point; in fact, ICE under Biden illegally deported an American citizen right before the midterms, but I digress).
At what point do you fault blue presidents for not lifting a finger to stop future red presidents from being able to do so much damage from the executive branch? Obama was the constitutional professor who was going to fix the Bush administration’s power grab. Instead, he ruled as if he had adopted the Unified Executive theory when he swore the oath at the inauguration.
Coming back to reality, how do you square the Democrats’ push for a Biden immigration bill just as draconian as any Republican proposal, particularly throwing DACA recipients under the bus, with your claim that Dems are better on policy?
Codifying Roe would have made reversing it much harder. You mentioned gay marriage. Do you see how much further SCOTUS has to go to knock down that law than it did with Roe? They literally would still be trying to move in that direction instead of being years into the decision. Any thoughts on Biden not doing anything to counter Dobbs, even though the ruling was leaked before the decision was announced? The old bastard failed to respond; instead, as I said, he spoke to a room full of donors about not supporting “abortion on demand”. Like, when the fuck are they supposed to happen, when the mom doesn’t want one?
Any thoughts on how having a Democratic president at that moment was any better than having a Republican?
You didn’t address Obama’s flip-flop on gay marriage in your paragraph on gay marriage. Not sure what you are trying to say there other than Obama was a reactionary president, something I fully agree with and hold against him. That is exactly how W was.
Again, we end where we have been landing. We both think Republicans are ‘demons’. I think Democrats are demons with better PR. You think they are good-faith actors, ineffective at preventing demons from being demonic. So my last question is, why support them if they are not good at battling the demons?
PS: I appreciate the time you have taken to debate an anonymous malcontent on the internet.
I think the DNC is generally a bad org, but I generally like the policy from democrats. Same as how I really don’t like how DSA leadership runs apologia for Russia and says other stuff I find really whacky, but some people in the dsa are great candidates.
I wish I lived in the world you’re describing where Republicans care even a tiny bit about guardrails, the only reason they wouldn’t reverse gay marriage is because even among Republicans that’s really not very popular. They literally break the constitution nonstop with deporting people with no trial, send the national guard because it’s an “emergency” that people are sitting in frog costumes protesting, trump breaks every law and the constitution at breakneck speed, and the supreme court gives a stern " " in response. They literally do not care even a little bit about the law. If we had a sane Republican party I would probably agree with you they should’ve codified things like immigration reform and roe v wade, and say the democrats are at fault, but maga literally doesn’t care even a little bit so long as they can get away with it without a countrywide revolt. Imo it would’ve made either 0 difference or it would’ve been another item on the 9000 articles about how trump broke another law. For biden’s comment on it, I think he has clearly shown a pro-choice record, and he was speaking to the concern of maga propagandists saying leftists want day before birth abortions, which would be very unpopular even among democrats. A republican would’ve said “yeah we’re moving to ban abortion” and then actually do it, like they did.
I can agree I don’t like the immigration policies of democrats either, and at certain times it was abhorrent, but voters in America are extremely racist, and most people see brown come in = president is doing a bad job, so the president and the senate are going to pass bills that reflect that. What Trump and the Republicans are doing is just evil for the sake of being evil, pulling illegals who had committed no crimes for years out of their homes, causing people to die in inhumane conditions, killing Americans, deporting Americans (several times), increasing the ICE budget to unbelievable amounts and essentially running around America causing terror with masked thugs. It’s like the worst situation with Obama but 4x as much, at least the kids in cages weren’t being killed with tainted food and water, and it was nowhere near the scale of terror for everyone as it is now.
I guess my point with obamna was, a lot of the bad policy from the dems is because that’s what their constituents wanted, and sometimes those people are morons but we live in a democracy. The people in the senate will reflect the anti-gay sentiment, and you can’t just decree something even if you think it’s right. To be honest even there the blame is majorly on Republicans for spreading lies about gay and trans people being weird and unnatural, which the democrats would almost always say the opposite.
I just see when democrats are in power, things I like happen, along with things I don’t like. For instance more rights for trans people (even though this is still very divisive and is hard to get bills passed), more solar and wind, more regulations, higher corporate taxes, restrictions on power for large corporations, less support for world leaders I find evil, less playing games with the wording of the law, more social safety nets (obamacare was a massive bill for instance), more support for families and schools. When Republicans are in power, I can’t name 1 thing that they do that I like, literally not one, and almost all I find abjectly evil. If I have the choice between evil demon and ineffective against the demon but often passes policy I really like, I will be the biggest cheerleader for the loser who gets bullied but is generally doing things I support.
PS: I appreciate the time you have taken to debate an anonymous malcontent on the internet.
Hey I just really care about this, and I feel like democrats get fair criticism for some atrocious things they do, but not enough credit for the real fighting many dems are doing, who end up getting lumped in with the maga-lites. I think people don’t realize how racist and close-minded many Americans really are, and how hard dems have to work against the snake oil propaganda that Republicans have successfully sold for years. It’s a battle against 24/7 propaganda, where the dems have to sell you on a harsh reality while the Republicans promise you everything. I complain about dems caving on the government shutdown, but 90% of dems stood firm and said “we’re not passing these dogshit cuts to medicare/Medicaid so billionaires can keep more money. Reach across the aisle you fucks.” It’s always the same group of maga-lite losers who cave to everything.
I was using comey as an example of democrats trying to be good faith and avoid seeming biased, and Republicans not caring and smearing them anyway. I think democrats have learned that lesson, with the majority now voting directly on party lines (minus the few who are just Republicans, like Chuck Schumer).
Hillary won the popular vote in the primaries in 2016, blame the voters for saying “Bernie old socialism bad, can’t vote for him!!” And then voting for Trump. She definitely mishandled documents as did every president, but no president had such an incredible witch hunt for a mistake every president in the history of the US has made, that was loudly broadcast on national news, called out by the head fbi agent, that is just insanity.
The Obama number was because they now did formal “removals” where previoue administrations did informal “returns,” i.e. at the border or recently crossed in, which massively inflated the numbers. Not to say there weren’t some terrible situations with immigration under him. In his second term they changed focus with ICE to avoid people who had been settled, and mainly go after those who had committed crimes or recently crossed. Again there were definitely some hugely negative parts to it, but Biden had no such draconian policy. Even the worst things done by Obama pale in comparison to what Trump is doing, and unlike Obama who changed course, Trump is tripling down, trying to kill as many brown people as possible, and we’re only 2 years in.
Gay marriage was not that popular during the Obama years, there has been a massive shift in that in the past ~15 years or so. When I was growing up, bullying people for being gay and saying it’s unnatural and wrong was extremely common, now you really only hear that from very religious or very extreme Republicans. In about 2010 that shift started to swing over to most people don’t mind it, and the president and senate will reflect their constituency. I’m not saying he was a saint on these issues, but Republicans are, with no exaggeration, literal demons who want trans and gay people to stop existing.
I really don’t think codifying roe v wade would have made any difference with this supreme court, they would just say “it’s unconstitutional cuz it kills a life lol” and it’s gone. They probably should have anyway, but it would’ve just been symbolic, the Republicans do not care about rules at all.
I mean I can’t really argue on that, democrats seem to have a “the guardrails will hold” attitude while the Republicans tear through them any chance they get. I’ve been immensely disappointed several times, like when some “”“democrats”“”" caved during the government shutdown, what was the point of holding out at all then?
I’m just saying one side is being literal demons, and one side is not resistant enough to those demons. Democrats in power = sometimes very good policy, sometimes very bad policy. Republicans in power = ruin everyone’s lives, tear families apart at a massive scale, destroy the environment, get into wars, support dictators, kill American citizens, defraud the government, cheat more evil people into power. Even if your single ticket issue was israel palestine, Trump is literally netanyahu’s lapdog, and basically doubled their funding.
You mention Schumer being a Dem who acts like a Pub, as if he is a fringe member of the party and not a DNC leader. How can you view Democrats as “sometimes good policy, sometimes very bad policy” when someone like Schumer has been in leadership for decades? The fish rots from the head, so to speak.
I think your framing of Obama (and then Biden)‘s immigration policies is generous to the point of dishonesty. Let’s assume you are right and Obama’s second term was gentler and wiser and only went after bad guys; and we both agree on the definition of a bad guy. Biden’s term, after seeing what Trump did with ICE, made no effort to put in guardrails while continuing Obama’s second-term enlightened immigration actions (again, for the sake of argument, I’m agreeing with your point; in fact, ICE under Biden illegally deported an American citizen right before the midterms, but I digress). At what point do you fault blue presidents for not lifting a finger to stop future red presidents from being able to do so much damage from the executive branch? Obama was the constitutional professor who was going to fix the Bush administration’s power grab. Instead, he ruled as if he had adopted the Unified Executive theory when he swore the oath at the inauguration. Coming back to reality, how do you square the Democrats’ push for a Biden immigration bill just as draconian as any Republican proposal, particularly throwing DACA recipients under the bus, with your claim that Dems are better on policy?
Codifying Roe would have made reversing it much harder. You mentioned gay marriage. Do you see how much further SCOTUS has to go to knock down that law than it did with Roe? They literally would still be trying to move in that direction instead of being years into the decision. Any thoughts on Biden not doing anything to counter Dobbs, even though the ruling was leaked before the decision was announced? The old bastard failed to respond; instead, as I said, he spoke to a room full of donors about not supporting “abortion on demand”. Like, when the fuck are they supposed to happen, when the mom doesn’t want one? Any thoughts on how having a Democratic president at that moment was any better than having a Republican?
You didn’t address Obama’s flip-flop on gay marriage in your paragraph on gay marriage. Not sure what you are trying to say there other than Obama was a reactionary president, something I fully agree with and hold against him. That is exactly how W was.
Again, we end where we have been landing. We both think Republicans are ‘demons’. I think Democrats are demons with better PR. You think they are good-faith actors, ineffective at preventing demons from being demonic. So my last question is, why support them if they are not good at battling the demons?
PS: I appreciate the time you have taken to debate an anonymous malcontent on the internet.
I think the DNC is generally a bad org, but I generally like the policy from democrats. Same as how I really don’t like how DSA leadership runs apologia for Russia and says other stuff I find really whacky, but some people in the dsa are great candidates.
I wish I lived in the world you’re describing where Republicans care even a tiny bit about guardrails, the only reason they wouldn’t reverse gay marriage is because even among Republicans that’s really not very popular. They literally break the constitution nonstop with deporting people with no trial, send the national guard because it’s an “emergency” that people are sitting in frog costumes protesting, trump breaks every law and the constitution at breakneck speed, and the supreme court gives a stern " " in response. They literally do not care even a little bit about the law. If we had a sane Republican party I would probably agree with you they should’ve codified things like immigration reform and roe v wade, and say the democrats are at fault, but maga literally doesn’t care even a little bit so long as they can get away with it without a countrywide revolt. Imo it would’ve made either 0 difference or it would’ve been another item on the 9000 articles about how trump broke another law. For biden’s comment on it, I think he has clearly shown a pro-choice record, and he was speaking to the concern of maga propagandists saying leftists want day before birth abortions, which would be very unpopular even among democrats. A republican would’ve said “yeah we’re moving to ban abortion” and then actually do it, like they did.
I can agree I don’t like the immigration policies of democrats either, and at certain times it was abhorrent, but voters in America are extremely racist, and most people see brown come in = president is doing a bad job, so the president and the senate are going to pass bills that reflect that. What Trump and the Republicans are doing is just evil for the sake of being evil, pulling illegals who had committed no crimes for years out of their homes, causing people to die in inhumane conditions, killing Americans, deporting Americans (several times), increasing the ICE budget to unbelievable amounts and essentially running around America causing terror with masked thugs. It’s like the worst situation with Obama but 4x as much, at least the kids in cages weren’t being killed with tainted food and water, and it was nowhere near the scale of terror for everyone as it is now.
I guess my point with obamna was, a lot of the bad policy from the dems is because that’s what their constituents wanted, and sometimes those people are morons but we live in a democracy. The people in the senate will reflect the anti-gay sentiment, and you can’t just decree something even if you think it’s right. To be honest even there the blame is majorly on Republicans for spreading lies about gay and trans people being weird and unnatural, which the democrats would almost always say the opposite.
I just see when democrats are in power, things I like happen, along with things I don’t like. For instance more rights for trans people (even though this is still very divisive and is hard to get bills passed), more solar and wind, more regulations, higher corporate taxes, restrictions on power for large corporations, less support for world leaders I find evil, less playing games with the wording of the law, more social safety nets (obamacare was a massive bill for instance), more support for families and schools. When Republicans are in power, I can’t name 1 thing that they do that I like, literally not one, and almost all I find abjectly evil. If I have the choice between evil demon and ineffective against the demon but often passes policy I really like, I will be the biggest cheerleader for the loser who gets bullied but is generally doing things I support.
Hey I just really care about this, and I feel like democrats get fair criticism for some atrocious things they do, but not enough credit for the real fighting many dems are doing, who end up getting lumped in with the maga-lites. I think people don’t realize how racist and close-minded many Americans really are, and how hard dems have to work against the snake oil propaganda that Republicans have successfully sold for years. It’s a battle against 24/7 propaganda, where the dems have to sell you on a harsh reality while the Republicans promise you everything. I complain about dems caving on the government shutdown, but 90% of dems stood firm and said “we’re not passing these dogshit cuts to medicare/Medicaid so billionaires can keep more money. Reach across the aisle you fucks.” It’s always the same group of maga-lite losers who cave to everything.