Excited about big post, it must have lots of good information. Incredibly disappointed after reading it. Nonsensical complaints and logic fallacies abound all under the guise of correctness. Yes, we need to fight lies with facts with an administration that could care less about facts.
You’re the second person to tell me I made a logical fallacy in this post.
So let me state it plainly: the meme is intentionally misleading and is creating propagandized misinformation against a politician.
The Abraham Lincoln is superficially rusty. That has no effect on its combat ability and has nothing to do with how much money Trump has sunk into the military.
The bigger criticisms are how poorly managed the Abraham Lincoln’s deployment was, the torment the sailors must have faced during such a long deployment, and the fact that, despite the military receiving even more money, situations like this still happen.
We should not use the same tactics our adversaries use.
And I’ll tell you what I told the other guy: the stupidest people on this platform are the ones who respond with “wall of text” and “logical fallacies.”
This is not a formal debate. I am not trying to convince you of anything, and you most assuredly won’t convince me of anything.
I have made my case very clearly, and instead of addressing any of the points I made, you simply cry “logical fallacy.” What an absolute waste.
Anyone who actually thinks about what you wrote would tell you the same thing. You have constructed a strawman in regards to the meaning of this meme. There is no misinformation presented that you have identified to my discernment.
A picture is worth a thousand words and this picture highlights the long deployment and torment the sailors had to go through.
We should definitely use the tactics the enemy uses if they are effective and this administration operates purely off vibes. Facts don’t matter, but feelings do. This is exactly how we should be attacking them.
I get you want to dismiss criticism, but I think you are way off base with me. I was genuinely excited to read your post. This is not a debate rather it is a discussion. The reality is you didn’t add anything meaningful other than nonsensical complaints.
Your lack of reading comprehension does not make my complaints “nonsensical.”
I very clearly stated the facts and arguments I was making.
I did not commit a straw man. I cannot commit a straw man against you because I am the one making the initial argument. A straw man would require me to misrepresent your argument and substitute it with a weaker argument that is easier to attack. That is not what I did. I made an accusation and then defended the position I was actually arguing.
You, on the other hand, are committing a straw man by substituting my actual argument with the assertion that my argument is simply “nonsense.” That is not an argument against what I said. It is a dismissal that avoids engaging with the actual points I made.
Stop throwing around logical fallacies you clearly do not understand. If you are going to accuse someone of committing a fallacy, you should at least understand what the fallacy means, how to identify it, and how to demonstrate that it actually applies.
A picture is worth a thousand words and this picture highlights the long deployment and torment the sailors had to go through.
And this picture is worth about three. It’s a close-up of the aft of the ship where you can see some rust. Above that is out-of-context text saying that military spending went up.
Wango bango: Rusty ship = more military spending = Trump is shit.
Which, he is. Don’t get me wrong. But this meme is wrong. Those two things are not connected in the context of the rust on the USS Abraham Lincoln. The presence of superficial rust on an active-duty ship does not demonstrate that increased military spending is being wasted, nor does it establish anything about the ship’s combat readiness or maintenance.
If you want to criticize Trump’s military spending, then criticize the actual spending. Don’t take a cosmetic maintenance issue, strip it of its context, and imply that it proves something it doesn’t.
We should definitely use the tactics the enemy uses if they are effective and this administration operates purely off vibes. Facts don’t matter, but feelings do. This is exactly how we should be attacking them.
An eye for an eye didn’t work for Hammurabi, and it’s not going to work here. We have to be better than the scum we stand against.
I am directly addressing your “criticism.” I have argued against your point, point by point, and I have not replaced your argument with something easier to attack. NO STRAW MAN.
“but using that photograph as evidence that Trump somehow left the U.S. military looking like this is misleading.”
It is not misleading. It is factual. The current administration’s decision to extend the deployment directly lead to the state of the ship.
“Those are substantive criticisms that deserve discussion.”
This meme is what lead to you saying this. Mission accomplished!?
“Instead, we get this stupid little meme that takes a completely legitimate photograph, strips away all of its context, and presents it as though it is evidence of something it does not actually demonstrate.”
This is straight nonsensical. It is also disingenuous, dismissive, and deceptive. The photo is the context that proves Trump is not rebuilding the military. He is using and abusing it as demonstrated by this picture. Your inability to see this is staggering to say the least.
“That’s the problem I keep seeing on Lemmy: a legitimate political point gets wrapped in misinformation because the misinformation makes the meme more effective.”
There was no misinformation, this is just an excuse for you to talk shit and it really makes you look like a fucking idiot.
“People then repeat it because it supports a conclusion they already agree with.”
You certainly repeat yourself a lot in this post.
“I don’t think that’s acceptable simply because the target is Trump.”
Nonsense.
“We shouldn’t respond to that by adopting the same tactics.”
Yes, we should because it works on the low information “feels people” Trump is manipulating. Obviously the fact that Trump is a rapist and charlatan isn’t convincing them. Making fun of Trump does work because it hurts his image and the feels of his followers. If they think Trump is uncool he is done.
"You can criticize Trump’s claims about “rebuilding the military.”
This meme did that effectively.
“You can criticize defense spending, procurement failures, maintenance problems, military readiness, the defense industrial complex, or the extraordinary deployment demands being placed on the Navy. There are plenty of legitimate arguments to make.”
Once again, a picture is worth a thousand words.
“We don’t need to manufacture evidence to make those arguments.”
You have failed to prove this and restating it over and over again is the same stupid tactic Trump uses. At this point you are not using facts and are using feelings. Pretty sus.
“If our standard becomes “misinformation is acceptable when it hurts the people we dislike,” then we’ve abandoned the very standard we’re supposedly defending.”
Repeat ad nauseum. Also what you are saying has been dubunked time and time again. Trump voters are not swayed by facts.
“Worse, we’ve made ourselves vulnerable to exactly the same rhetorical tactics when they’re used against us.”
This straight laughable. First, what you said was not even true to begin with. Your opinion isn’t supported by anything other than your own hangups and failure to understand how politics are currently working.
“Being better than Trump and his political movement means more than disagreeing with them. It means refusing to become comfortable with the methods we condemn when they’re politically convenient.”
Let me fix this for you. There is no being better and even if there was it wouldn’t win in the current climate. Winning is what matters and being factual is not winning. The only way to win is to turn these same tactics against Trump. Ridicule is what gets under this regime’s skin and it is what changes public opinion.
So you are wrong on multiple levels hence my complete disappointment and realization that you are fucking rambling at this point using the exact same tactics (repeating untruths over and over again) this administration uses.
If you think the only way to beat Trump is to convince people like you have convinced me…well let’s just say you are missing the mark. A lot.
Excited about big post, it must have lots of good information. Incredibly disappointed after reading it. Nonsensical complaints and logic fallacies abound all under the guise of correctness. Yes, we need to fight lies with facts with an administration that could care less about facts.
You’re the second person to tell me I made a logical fallacy in this post.
So let me state it plainly: the meme is intentionally misleading and is creating propagandized misinformation against a politician.
The Abraham Lincoln is superficially rusty. That has no effect on its combat ability and has nothing to do with how much money Trump has sunk into the military.
The bigger criticisms are how poorly managed the Abraham Lincoln’s deployment was, the torment the sailors must have faced during such a long deployment, and the fact that, despite the military receiving even more money, situations like this still happen.
We should not use the same tactics our adversaries use.
And I’ll tell you what I told the other guy: the stupidest people on this platform are the ones who respond with “wall of text” and “logical fallacies.”
This is not a formal debate. I am not trying to convince you of anything, and you most assuredly won’t convince me of anything.
I have made my case very clearly, and instead of addressing any of the points I made, you simply cry “logical fallacy.” What an absolute waste.
Anyone who actually thinks about what you wrote would tell you the same thing. You have constructed a strawman in regards to the meaning of this meme. There is no misinformation presented that you have identified to my discernment.
A picture is worth a thousand words and this picture highlights the long deployment and torment the sailors had to go through.
We should definitely use the tactics the enemy uses if they are effective and this administration operates purely off vibes. Facts don’t matter, but feelings do. This is exactly how we should be attacking them.
I get you want to dismiss criticism, but I think you are way off base with me. I was genuinely excited to read your post. This is not a debate rather it is a discussion. The reality is you didn’t add anything meaningful other than nonsensical complaints.
Your lack of reading comprehension does not make my complaints “nonsensical.”
I very clearly stated the facts and arguments I was making.
I did not commit a straw man. I cannot commit a straw man against you because I am the one making the initial argument. A straw man would require me to misrepresent your argument and substitute it with a weaker argument that is easier to attack. That is not what I did. I made an accusation and then defended the position I was actually arguing.
You, on the other hand, are committing a straw man by substituting my actual argument with the assertion that my argument is simply “nonsense.” That is not an argument against what I said. It is a dismissal that avoids engaging with the actual points I made.
Stop throwing around logical fallacies you clearly do not understand. If you are going to accuse someone of committing a fallacy, you should at least understand what the fallacy means, how to identify it, and how to demonstrate that it actually applies.
And this picture is worth about three. It’s a close-up of the aft of the ship where you can see some rust. Above that is out-of-context text saying that military spending went up.
Wango bango: Rusty ship = more military spending = Trump is shit.
Which, he is. Don’t get me wrong. But this meme is wrong. Those two things are not connected in the context of the rust on the USS Abraham Lincoln. The presence of superficial rust on an active-duty ship does not demonstrate that increased military spending is being wasted, nor does it establish anything about the ship’s combat readiness or maintenance.
If you want to criticize Trump’s military spending, then criticize the actual spending. Don’t take a cosmetic maintenance issue, strip it of its context, and imply that it proves something it doesn’t.
An eye for an eye didn’t work for Hammurabi, and it’s not going to work here. We have to be better than the scum we stand against.
I am directly addressing your “criticism.” I have argued against your point, point by point, and I have not replaced your argument with something easier to attack. NO STRAW MAN.
“but using that photograph as evidence that Trump somehow left the U.S. military looking like this is misleading.”
It is not misleading. It is factual. The current administration’s decision to extend the deployment directly lead to the state of the ship.
“Those are substantive criticisms that deserve discussion.”
This meme is what lead to you saying this. Mission accomplished!?
“Instead, we get this stupid little meme that takes a completely legitimate photograph, strips away all of its context, and presents it as though it is evidence of something it does not actually demonstrate.”
This is straight nonsensical. It is also disingenuous, dismissive, and deceptive. The photo is the context that proves Trump is not rebuilding the military. He is using and abusing it as demonstrated by this picture. Your inability to see this is staggering to say the least.
“That’s the problem I keep seeing on Lemmy: a legitimate political point gets wrapped in misinformation because the misinformation makes the meme more effective.”
There was no misinformation, this is just an excuse for you to talk shit and it really makes you look like a fucking idiot.
“People then repeat it because it supports a conclusion they already agree with.”
You certainly repeat yourself a lot in this post.
“I don’t think that’s acceptable simply because the target is Trump.”
Nonsense.
“We shouldn’t respond to that by adopting the same tactics.”
Yes, we should because it works on the low information “feels people” Trump is manipulating. Obviously the fact that Trump is a rapist and charlatan isn’t convincing them. Making fun of Trump does work because it hurts his image and the feels of his followers. If they think Trump is uncool he is done.
"You can criticize Trump’s claims about “rebuilding the military.”
This meme did that effectively.
“You can criticize defense spending, procurement failures, maintenance problems, military readiness, the defense industrial complex, or the extraordinary deployment demands being placed on the Navy. There are plenty of legitimate arguments to make.”
Once again, a picture is worth a thousand words.
“We don’t need to manufacture evidence to make those arguments.”
You have failed to prove this and restating it over and over again is the same stupid tactic Trump uses. At this point you are not using facts and are using feelings. Pretty sus.
“If our standard becomes “misinformation is acceptable when it hurts the people we dislike,” then we’ve abandoned the very standard we’re supposedly defending.”
Repeat ad nauseum. Also what you are saying has been dubunked time and time again. Trump voters are not swayed by facts.
https://youtu.be/S8DQ2kseTWw?is=qxuWhKmhA-qwsVcq
“Worse, we’ve made ourselves vulnerable to exactly the same rhetorical tactics when they’re used against us.”
This straight laughable. First, what you said was not even true to begin with. Your opinion isn’t supported by anything other than your own hangups and failure to understand how politics are currently working.
“Being better than Trump and his political movement means more than disagreeing with them. It means refusing to become comfortable with the methods we condemn when they’re politically convenient.”
Let me fix this for you. There is no being better and even if there was it wouldn’t win in the current climate. Winning is what matters and being factual is not winning. The only way to win is to turn these same tactics against Trump. Ridicule is what gets under this regime’s skin and it is what changes public opinion.
So you are wrong on multiple levels hence my complete disappointment and realization that you are fucking rambling at this point using the exact same tactics (repeating untruths over and over again) this administration uses.
If you think the only way to beat Trump is to convince people like you have convinced me…well let’s just say you are missing the mark. A lot.