full reality distortion … this tech is coming at a cost none of us can afford.
This is likely on purpose. The goal is to normalize AI and make people feel like “everyone uses ai”.
People are using AI to determine what is or is not AI so that they can avoid AI
This is funny
My friend has been posting stories of the meals he cooks. They all get labeled as made with AI…
Sorry you have to find out this way but your friend is AI and so are you
The stated goal is that we won’t be able to tell the difference.
the funny thing is though that there were apparently studies that show that younger folks especially have an AI-dar
and “that’s so AI” has become a term for kitsch haha
Yes my son who is 10, uses that term when I lie or take the piss out of him. He’s like “omg mum that sounds ai generated”
I really hope this is true
Really sucks this ruined everything. I have no motivation for art or music because anything made in this era is suspect now and no one has any integrity. Why even release music when people probably won’t even listen to something that new. Should have stopped in 2012 boys.
Don’t let the tech bros take your creative outlet :(
Artist here. I don’t draw because I’m good at it. Or because other people are better at it than me.
I do it because I like it. A lot.
It makes me happy to be able to take something from my own brain and make it real enough that others can see it. I don’t want to make a career out of it or anything. But being able to draw things for my friends for Christmas or birthdays is something that makes them happy. Drawing my own assets for games I’m programming, or sketching dumb stickers for friend group in-jokes on Discord is satisfying.
Please keep drawing. Please keep making music. You don’t have to make anybody happy other than yourself. It’s as normal an expression of humanity as dancing or singing.
Thats cool, I have never been able to draw worth a crap! Its really cool seeing people do it though its impressive how hard drawing is to me.
I do enjoy it but as with anything its a lot of work, money and time and I’m not happy if I’m just plucking along, I need to be improving ans creating full albums etc but in the end it doesn’t seem worth it. People dont care, which is fine, and I’ll maybe go back and listen to it in a few years for fun. Ive tried full on quitting but I keep getting recruited into other bands and most of my friends are musicians.
It sounds like you’ve found a lifelong happy place. That’s a good thing. Keep it close, and keep doing it. And hey, if you post a 30 second snip of your music here, I’d listen to it.
Honest question, but is your only goal for for example music to put it online? I play music, an obvious goal of it is to play it for other people, and what does AI matter? They see me play the instrument and that’s the problem solved.
Yep. One of my finest moments as a musician was last year. Guy comes up to me after a show and says something like “gosh, I feel bad for you musicians, AI is taking your job.” I was just like “do you think I do this for money? I have a day job. I play music to meet and impress women, and you’ll never be able to do that with AI.”
Eh, kind of. I have hundreds of songs ive never finished but I probably won’t. No one needs new music. Theres over a billion songs already made. The music i enjoy most are full productions either with my band or me playing all instruments, but now no one cares at all when you can just use midi guitars and some ai bot to throw real sounding drums and vocals. It sounds 99% real to almost everyone, so theres really no point in music online other than live performances, which I cant really do with just me. That would work if I was just an acoustic singer songwriter, but theres already way too many of those. It also takes so much of my time for zero benefit…tens of thousands spent on recording gear, thousands of hours learning recording and mixing, and in the end you have nothing. Much better off woodworking or learning to build/fix houses.
Its a sad state of the world , music/all art has never been undervalued more than now.
Literal fucking nightmare
Makes me want to never release anything ever again
(I’m not on Meta. I mean anywhere)
Please keep making things. Art for art’s sake is a noble calling. Posting it is just icing on the cake, it’s the act of creation and the feeling you get from it that really matters. So don’t stop doing it.
i’m not sure what art you do specifically, but release it out of spite. directly to people who can appreciate it. please.
skip the internet.
i would love to see/hear it
Wait until for them to close your account with the pretext of “your account has violated our community guidelines”, no legal justification whatsoever if some people decide to spam that report button lol stop using these bullshit platforms that see you as nothing but a number. Hell, you might be earning your life through Instagram or YouTube, and all it takes for them to delete your years of content is pressing one button.
I bet this is because LLMs stole her art for training, so now that the LLM users have pumped out thousands of slop-art aping hers down to the colour palate and brushstrokes, her originals also get identified as also AI.
This is exactly it. Also the reason that inputting an excerpt of a classical text (cfr. Dracula, Frankenstein, …) returns “likely AI” results - it’s literally what it was trained on.
But the fact that they say their system is “advanced” and “refined”, while they don’t even add some guardrails as, i.e., date checks, that are the minimum one would expect to be added to reduce the likeliness of both false positives and false negatives. It’s just stunning.
For anyone doubting Kyrgizion’s claim:
And that’s still not really how that works. Those checkers just aren’t very good.
If that’s the case, everything on Instagram, heck, the internet, would be labeled as AI …
While I don’t think you’re entirely wrong, I feel like this sentiment will lead people to believing AI content checkers more. The content checkers are wrong even for newer stuff. I always default to believing something is human made because I never want to accuse a real artist for using AI.
The irony of people immediately and without hesitation to believe AI to fact check AI, and simultaneously increasingly anything that anyone does is accused of using AI, nearly every single time with zero evidence other than their own gut feeling. The wider internet is an increasingly miserable place to be, which is impressive that it somehow seems gets worse every year.
I’m with you we need to chill
I don’t follow, if content checkers are wrong for not being able to tell original art from AI slop because they have been trained on datasets that include the original art, why wouldn’t they also be wrong for the same reason on newer art? They would still likely absorb that newer art into their datasets.
Okay after writing it out I get what you mean, but I am thinking that the turnaround time of absorbing new art, using it to produce AI slop requests a few dozen/hundred/million times, and then calling the original works AI because the AI sloptificator can no longer tell the difference will be a constant, unless there is some way to track OC across multiple AI agents in the panslopticon.
AI content checkers will always be wrong. They’ll always sometimes flag non-AI images as AI and AI images as human made some percentage of the time. I don’t want artists to have to prove that their art is real, I want them to be able to make and share the content they want.
New ai checkers are based on companies signing the response of the llm.
Those are good as that puts the proof on the ai creators, not the artists.
I agree, I am not sure how they can do this… Maybe release original art work with some kind of 2FA QR code to verify authenticity to the original author? That probably wouldn’t work but you get my drift.
LLMs don’t steal art for training, image generation models are fed datasets by humans, which are then invoked by LLMs when prompted
Arguing semantics is a classic strategy of people who don’t have a valid argument to make.
Literally the “guns don’t kill people” argument.
but they don’t! it’s bullets!
/s
No, words have meanings, I hate AI as much as the average lemming but “LLMs stole art” is just a horrible way to describe what actually happened. It makes it sound like LLMs are going rogue and collecting art themselves. Humans decided to train an image generation model specifically on art like the one in the OP, and just glued an LLM on top of the final model. LLMs are not the ones that do this. I wasn’t even trying to defend anything or anyone here, but I guess this place is too toxic to even use correct phrasing.
I fully agree with you that humans are the culprit here. And you’re right, words do have meaning. So I’m going to point out you took an active action “stealing” to the passive voices “fed” and “invoked” and “trained.” Yet you never said humans “stole.” Because they did. They are thieves who are stealing and profiting on other people’s intellectual property. Even if other commenters can’t name why they are upset, that’s why. It’s the same thing that pisses people when news articles do the same thing depending on which groups they are talking about. Without meaning to your language softens when you talked about the human actions for the exact same acts. It’s a bias. One I’m sure you’re not aware you’re doing. I’ve honestly noticed a lot of people doing it. We all need to work on recognizing when we are unnecessarily softening our language for any group in power. We need to call them out for the thieving shitheads that they are with bold language. “Billionaires are stealing art.” Because they fucking are.
“LLMs stole art” is shorthand for “the people who made the LLMs stole the art and put it into their datasets to generate shitty images”. we don’t want to type that every time.
I guess this place is too toxic to even use correct phrasing.
I feel you on a daily basis here, however I do think you could consider what the tone of your first response was like. There are a lot of AI supporters out there and I genuinely think you sounded like one there.
Yeah I considered editing it after the first response but had better things to. Karma doesn’t exist on Lemmy anyways.
But you could have said something along the lines of “LLM companies steal data, don’t accidentally give credence to the marketing idea that these things are sentient”
The irony of him complaining about inaccuracy and lack of clarity in someones post, but being so inaccurate and unclear with his complaint is just… amazing.
Exactly what does any of that change?
It’s tracing.
I’ll trace a chalk line around your dead fucking body, you fuck!
Why do you think people are upset about ai “stealing” art styles then?
This is also entirely intentional.
The back edge of generated content that I don’t see a lot of discussion about is mislabeling real content, accidentally or not. It’s gonna have a monumental affect on how we consume media, even for those that want to avoid it.
Yep, this is the most important threat of Gen AI in my opinion. The erosion of trust, and the following devaluation of truth, is already hurting society so much. And it will only get worse.
Remember, it’s not just «did someone actually paint this?». It is also «did this actually happen?» and «did they actually say that?».
10000%. Its really ruined everything. So many people like myself are just sticking to media made before 2018 ish. I follow very few artists today that I know are fully legit, but have zero trust for the majority.
Thats OK. I was listening to 60s music in the 90s so I was always an old fart.
what are your feelings about jazz? i just made some connections at a festival and all of these dudes hate llms
I mean I like all music. Mostly heavily into rock/indie, old prog, some dnb, metal, black metal, folk, bluegrass etc. I likejazz but dont seek it out beyond fusion like weather report . the only stuff i dont like is pop or stadium country. Not a huge fan of rap (hip hop thats creative is cool though).
Thats good to hear!!
i was looking for a specific performer but i just found a playlist of videos someone took at the festival I was at. i rather liked San Lyon. I think this is the singer’s (Sabrina) channel.
A promotional image I created for a local queer rally was deemed “AI” by the community (the image was actually the result of me sacrificing 8 hours of sleep.) The vitriol I was hit with, including one of my fellow committee members passive aggressively implying I was lying about it not being AI, was enough to make me no longer want to volunteer my time or skills for my own community.
Which is really fucking shitty. The increased lateral attacks happening because of Gen-AI pitting us against one another benefits those fucks at the top, and they didn’t even have to work for it.
I hate this part the most, it just helps alienate artists even further
+1. I was releasing free fucking music for indie devs who didn’t have budget or limited budget for this kinda stuff, some mf on reddit who was selling his music saw this, contacted admins to claim it was made via AI, then they took the post down without doing any investigation or even contacting me. Labeled as made with AI. I’ve worked in the industry for over 10 years, there’s literally 0 reason for me to use AI to make music lol From that point onward I just pulled out all of my free libraries from public, if it’s that easy to mislabel somebody’s hard work, and only give the download codes for free for people who did contact me personally and that I was sure they were actually building something.
We’re gonna have to record video of ourselves doing work at this rate.
You’re right that it is the only proof that might appease the masses at this point. That’s what the committee has proposed going forward, too. And I’m feeling a little sour grapes about how the labour I am donating is growing exponentially just to try and outrun GenAI BS.
Then they’ll claim that video of you doing the work is also generated via AI. There’s no way of convincing your regular joe once they made their mind up.
Though people will claim that, creating very long, consistent, and physically-accurate videos is beyond the capability or budget constraints of publicly available models, for now.
I see your point and would like to add, the issue is, some people are like bricks. Like, you could get a more logical reaction(!) from a brick than these people. You could literally paint something in front of them, and they’d still claim it’s not your own work. Like, there’s no way of proving your innocence/righteousness, no matter what evidence you put in front of them. I can not wrap my head how we can communicate with these people.
Even caught myself mislabelling real art a few times, ai has destroyed our trust in genuine human stuff
That’s by design!
There are interesting signing processes in software being done for photography in camera to help combat this, ironically some utilise machine learning as part of the process. I wonder if something similar could be done for digital art
The most interesting suggestion I’ve seen is a Chain of Trust method. I don’t know all the complicated details, but in short, a trusted central group is established and each person can vouch for others, and those additions can vouch for others, etc, building out a large group of (theoretically) trustworthy creators. If a person ends up being untrustworthy, their link in the chain is “cut”, removing their part of the chain and any cascading issues.
I’m sure the method has issues, but it’s appealing as a mostly decentralized method of rebuking bad actors.
Then maybe stop treating it like a purity signal wielded like a weapon, and judge content based on its actual quality?
I know it’s a radical idea. But artists can use AI and also be fully emotionally invested in the process. Other artists can choose to use no AI at all. And some can even make interesting pieces that would be literally impossible without it.
Aim your ire at corruption and greed. Not the concept itself.
Should it be used as a weapon? No. But it fully deserves the ire. Generated content can not and never will be art, and artists that make use of it taint their own work and further enable the societal and environmental harm that accompanies it. The problem here is not a matter of caring too much, but an issue of how to appropriately handle a difficult-to-distinguish imitation of something that matters a lot to a lot of people.
some can even make interesting pieces that would be *literally* impossible without it.
Got a “for instance”?
https://m.youtube.com/@ChloeVSHistory
First one that comes to mind, but I’m sure there are more.
Could this be made without AI? Yes, of course it could. But it would require a HUGE budget, and an entire studio dedicated to it.
Is the creator hiding the fact it was AI gen? No, of course not. Would I prefer it be created with studio quality and real actors with real props? Absolutely I would. But absent that, this is still a really cool project.
Could this be made without AI? Yes, of course it could. But it would require a HUGE budget, and an entire studio dedicated to it.
Got it. So not literally impossible.
So is the argument that restricting people’s creativity to only be expressed if you have the finances to do so, a good thing?
Because it is indeed literally impossible for the average person to create this without that technology.
it’s literally impossible for the average person to become an expert at my instrument (for three more months) because my instrument costs like six figures. i have literally met three people my entire life with one, and they don’t specialize in it the way i do.
i’m publishing the plans for an effective practice instrument that costs $300 in about three months.
i don’t plan on charging, because people are going to get so good at my instrument. i’m currently one of the best in the world but they’ll be able to blow me out of the water in five years with good practice. I’m so excited to see what people will be able to do.
What is the instrument?
I’m not sure if this is a metaphor, or genuine. But if it’s genuine I’m very curious to know what this instrument is!
If it’s a metaphor, I think it’s a good one. We build, design, draw, and create, with the hope that we make the world a better place in some small way. The person that invented the abacus did so, because they wanted to do mathematics easier. Should those have come before been offended that their years and years of doing math on their fingers was now being stolen and simplified?
This is the march of progress. And it fucking SUCKS that people are being hurt by it. I fully advocate for universal basic income, free education, and fully funded career transitions, because technology will never slow down, and people need to feel comfortable in order to embrace it.
deleted by creator
I had never heard of the artist before, and if you haven’t either, I cannot recommend giving her website a visit enough.
Insanely talented and really unique style.
þe steal from artists and þen turn around and make damn sure þat þey cant have shit pipeline is what AI is all about. Given þe fact þat it looks like all of mainstram tech is AI pilled it seems like the only recouse is to leave and figure out some sort of alternative
I think this labeling was probably done by AI.
Lots of “AI detector” tools for both images and text are AI, yes. People using them don’t realize the irony because everyone wants so badly to believe there’s a way to stop all the AI fakers.
edit: please, someone come up with an actually reliable way to detect AI art, something that’s not based on probabilities that will be skewed by real artists having their art used to train AI
For images, some photoshop forensics and a trained eye. Text is a bit trickier.
Text is trickier but for now the major signs are
- corporate speech
- “it’s not X — it’s Y”
- em dashes used in the wrong place
There are others but i can think only of those rn
if only there were platforms you could migrate to that wouldnt have this problem
This doesn’t work for artists who need to make a living. The art-buying audience is not on the platforms you are talking about.
Instagram also needs to “make a living”. They do that by making your life as an artist harder. You have to make a choice between using software that respects you and having a smaller following, or using a platform that, in every way that you can imagine, is abusing you.
They do make that choice. You just don’t like the result.
Neither do they, it would seem.
“You chose one of two possible bullshit options, now stop complaining that the result is bullshit.”
Then they gotta, as the saying goes, lay in the bed they made, except they’re (helping) making it for others, too.
They want the benefit of the privacy-respecting network, they want the exposure of the artist-hostile network, but they don’t want to contribute to bringing their audience to the privacy-respecting network. That choice is 100% on them, then.
I think we should put the blame where it belongs. Insta and all other plattforms have massive amounts of power and reach. They make more money from their users than the other way around. Its also not just artists livlyhoods on the line. With that level of power we need to inforce respinsibillity as well.
Your plan does simply not work. Just like you are not comsuming solely ethical products so does everyone else. “personal responsibility” IS what these companies want you to believe the solution is when we KNOW it is not.
There will not be enough people leaving to make a difference IF enough people would leave to theoretically make a differnce than the new place gets either sold to the bigger company OR sued OR banned since they are basically our politicians bosses. You can’t fight these things with “personal choices”
We should always stand with the people with us in the mud and demand responsibillity from those who have actual power. Just assume that everybidy in your class is doing their best and will probably be more deserving of your support. They want you to blame the creators don’t help them.
That choice is 100% on them, then.
🙄
Oh honey people will not follow you. That’s just the reality.
Yeah artists don’t have it hard enough already, let’s victim blame them for trying to use tools that used to be less hostile.
I choose to eat but I’m also not worried about ai.
artists can make a living from insta? (please assume I am very out-of-the-loop in regards to instagram and modern art stuff)
It’s not that the money comes directly through Instagram, it’s that the artist grows their audience through Instagram. The benefit is the size of the potential audience pool.
A lot of time has to be spent marketing yourself, unfortunately. To find people who are willing to pay you for your art, you have to be present, you have to be visible. You could be the most talented artist in the world, but if nobody sees your work it won’t matter, you’ll die in obscurity, penniless.
Believe it or not, it’s a source of sales, yes.
like artist post cool stuff on insta and put a link to their etsy in their profile?
I seriously cant image the average insta doomscroller to stay long enough on a thing to notice that. I cant image there is enough money their to make it worth the effort, for the artist
One thing I see a lot of is photographers using instagram to advertise booking sessions, things like that. Lots of people make custom jewelry, ordered off IG and paid with paypal or venmo or something.
I don’t like it, but I do see a lot of creative folks using it to make money… while also passively supporting meta 🙄
They’d probably be distinctly socially liberal and full of Linux nerds. But who would want that?
Social media without fasicts?! Are you insane?!
If you think there are no fascists here…
At least they stand out here. There’s no such thing as a perfect security., you can only give it your best effort.
I mean, at least here they are the black sheeps or rather, the wolves among the sheeps, they usually get downvoted to hell too (unless they are in their own bubble)
^-^
She literally made a platform like that.
