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It’s so weird how my public education really stressed that non-violence was the best way to get things done but only gave two extremely cherry-picked examples versus the entirety of human history. Super duper weird.
I feel like you might be mixing two things here.
If there is a non-violent solution to a problem, that should always be preferred and is also IMO the best way in the grand scheme of things. And if there is not, it might be also worth considering if the problem to be solved is actually a problem in the first place. But a few problems are left where violence might be the only solution.
Also “the best” doesn’t mean “the most effective”. Many many problems can be solved pretty effectively with a violent act. Or the violence is the simplest approach. But it wouldn’t be the best.
arguably state violence is worse than other violence because everyone chipped in for it.
I’m not gonna go out looking for a fight, mind. But if I see one happen, I know whose side I’m on, because no, I didn’t get a good look at his face. That’s all.
Ok but why is it slanted
Shoddy craftsmanship
We should be hunting ICE agents for sport. The fact that not one, masked, armed, kidnapper has not had a single bullet fly in his direction is a complete failure of the citizenry.
And before someone says something smart ass, they’re nowhere near me. I actively look.
I wouldn’t trust either of those sites, they’re not showing any of the ICE activity near me at all. Are you involved in your local rapid response groups?
Do tell more?
Your local signal/telegram ICE watch groups? I can’t tell you how your local ones operate, but I found out about mine through the community group that’s been organizing the local protests.
The hardest part we’ve been running into is it’s hard to find trustworthy people to join. There’s not enough of us to cover the whole county, so by the time we hear about an abduction and get there, ICE is already gone and the only thing we can really do is try to help the families left behind.
Well if its going to be a sport, then there needs to be a league. And after the past couple years of league sports Iʻm deeply not OK with sports teams being allowed to move geographies. So whatever league ends up forming up needs to have rules about franchises moving cities.
I donʻt want to find out the Honolulu ICE Hammmahʻs are moving to Detroit some day.
Oh, it happened. They just weren’t shot BECAUSE they were ICE. They got shot and happened to be ICE.
@shalafi@lemmy.world There was also this one instance LINK HERE where a sniper shot at the ICE but only manage to hit the detainees killing Miguel Angel Garcia-Hernandez, 31, and Norlan Guzman-Fuentes, 37.
Didn’t they shoot at ICE in TX…pretty sure someone got 40 years for pamphlets too…
They shot back at ICE. They didn’t open fire first, and that sentence is absolutely bullshit because the thug with a badge was firing at unarmed civilians without cause.
And who is stopping you from doing it?
It seems like the hard core revolutionaries expect other people to martyr themselves for the cause.
Curious… Why did you choose to ignore the second half of their comment literally addressing your comment before you even made it?
Hey, if conservative shitheels are willing to cross state lines to fire guns at people they dont like, why isnt OP?
Got it.
They are willing to fight and die, but draw the line at credit card fraud or hitchhiking.
Thanks for the giggles.
ICE activity is hundreds of miles from me, at best. I am unemployed, have a brown immigrant wife and two small children 3 states away that depend on me. Not in great shape to go hunting.
Having said that, there is no situation in which they will catch me unarmed, armed with guns I practice with. I have decided that my cowardly ass would rather die than stand passively by and witness a kidnapping. I will instantly open fire and end up dead. I have shared this with my wife and kids.
So you don’t think other people have people who depend on them? That no one else is located “far from the action” as it were? Do you not have empathy for their excuses as you do your own?
That’s the main problem with the opposition to this shit at the moment, everyone has plenty of ways to fix things… that are just so inconvenient that clearly other people should be doing it.
Instead of making excuses for why your chosen methods don’t work for you, you should focus on finding methods you can do, and helping others do the same.
Based
Be peaceful, not helpless
Like the Starship Enterprise! Peaceful, diverse, accepting, curious, loving… and armed to the FUCKING teeth in case some motherfucker has just got to find out.
The enterprise was not afraid to fight back when violence was being leveled against them and it was clear that there was no other way out. They were often even quick to employ violence in the defence of others, who weren’t able to defend themselves. The state as it currently exists(utterly and completely captured by sociopathic corporate billionaires) is a violent, heavily armed adversary who is intent on extracting every last available resource from the world as quickly as possible, with no regard for human lives or suffering. When are those motherfuckers gonna find out?
Curious what you think that looks like when the state is actively targeting your neighbors, or when they decide to focus on you. What does being peaceful but not helpless mean in the context of heavily armed masked men abducting people off the street? What does it mean if they sight you at a protest and you become targeted? I’m actually curious how you think you could not be helpless in that situation, while still remaining peaceful, when the state starts leveling all the violence they can muster towards you.
nah. be nurturing and inclusive. sometimes that means challenging a dramatic asshole to a duel so he can feel validated and included.
I can’t believer I have to keep posting this. What tf do you suggest and how is it not a suicide mission?
persuade weirdos radicalized into stochastic violence by Malcolm gladwell or my little pony fanfics or whatever to go after the right targets instead of shooting up a school when they finallu snap by arguing for violence against the right people in public.
First of all, these are not the same people. Second, it’s still most likely a suicide mission.
instead of shooting up a school when they finallu snap by arguing for violence against the right people in public.
yeah. I don’t know how to stop the suicide, I only argue for it to kill one billionaire instead of 20 school children or ten people in a super market.
Things will only get worse, and revolutions are a way to make things a lot worse very quickly
Another round, after this round you mean?
blunt force trauma to the head is deadly.
so throwing a rock or one of those bricks that the feds leave at riots and protests for bait is technically deadly force
And a non lethal round to the eye is also deadly force what’s your point
So “less-lethal” projectiles like metal balls thinly coated with rubber being SHOT at the heads of peaceful protestors is technically deadly force as well. Only it’s not. Technically.
peaceful protestors
assaulting police officers and blocking traffic in the roads isn’t a peaceful protest. Looting and rioting isn’t a peaceful protest either.
Haven’t you seen the body cam videos at those gatherings?
Violence isn’t the way, though. Violent Protests are statistically less likely to achieve their goals on top of bringing more harm to everyone involved.
However, it becomes justified in response to violence. No tolerance for the intolerant. For example, in China they’re met with deadly force if they hold a nationwide protest, so it’s completely justified and even necessary for them to use force to enact any real change.
I don’t know of a single protest that started with violence.
All protests that I know lf which became violent were a response to police violence or the threat of police violence to shut down a protest.
I think you could argue January 6th insurrectionists committed violence the moment they packed pipe bombs into a cooler or built a noose. Similarly, the Proud Boys burnt down notable churches during their march a few years ago.
Some people show up to these events in groups with loaded automatic rifles, such as the Charlottesville protests or Kyle Rittenhouse who hung out with other armed counterprotestors and then roamed the streets looking for a fight and then shot two people to death.
A planned insurrection isn’t a protest, it is trying to violently overthrow the government. Kyle was opposed to the protest and looking to commit homicide. He was a counter protester in the same way someone with road rage is protesting traffic.
Being ready to respond to police violence isn’t starting with violence. It is being prepared.
Is that what the meme says, though? Because to me it says violence is justified because the state has used violence at unrelated events in the past as a general statement.
Rocks get thrown at police cars when the police try to shut down a protest, frequently using violence.
it says violence is justified because the state has used violence at unrelated events in the past
It doesn’t say that, it brings up throwing a rock at a car AFTER police violence. That is you projecting your apparent dislike of protesters standing up for themselves to twist a clear message.
Shutting down a peaceful protest should be illegal, in my opinion.
Agreed.
Also police should not use tactics against a peaceful protest to provoke a violent response, which they do all the time. Like crowding the protesters into smaller and smaller spaces, declaring it is necessary to disperse because of the time of day and they will violently force dispersal if they don’t, etc.
it’s a nitpick but not an automatic rifle. Semi auto, even with bump stocks or FRTs (Forced Reset Triggers)
If you donʻt think violence is a potential way, then donʻt use violence.
Its the prerogative of the person(s) being oppressed to decide for them selves what force to use.
I’m allowed to give helpful, life saving, an politically effective advice. It’s my prerogative.
Violence or a credible threat of violence is the only thing that produces change.
Unionizers had to fight mining companies armed with machine guns.
The pinkertons specialized in using violence against unionizers.
MLK succeeded only because of Malcom x. MLKs peaceful protests were peaceful only because of the watchers armed with rifles.
Occupy Wall Street was kettled in the corner and ignored.
About the only successful peaceful protest was the Iroquois indian sex strike and the American fight to give women the right to vote.
About the only successful peaceful protest was the Iroquois indian sex strike and the American fight to give women the right to vote.
Lol okay, pal.
Another famous “success” of peaceful protest was Ghandhi. Britain was bankrupt from WW2. Mountbatten was sent to get rid of India. India was on verge of civil war. Ghandhi was the but the threat of violence was the breakdown of India into chaos. As it stood, the separation of Pakistan from India was so disruptive resulting in decades of war, something that Ghandhi was partially responsible for.
I made refutable statements, please do the same.
Are you aware of the phrase “turtles all the way down”?
nonviolent protestors without violent backing die.
Maybe in China.
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Yeah well that’s an opinion which contradicts science, so there’s that.
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