The United States is a global superpower, and its military trains for war in every domain. During my years as a military educator, I saw American officers wrestle with any number of scenarios designed to challenge their thinking and force them to adapt to surprises. One case we never considered, however, was how to betray and attack our own allies. We did not ask what to do if the president becomes a threatening megalomaniac who tells one of our oldest friends, Norway, that because the Nobel Committee in Oslo refuses to give him a trophy, he no longer feels “an obligation to think purely of Peace” and can instead turn his mind toward planning to wage war against NATO.
As my colleague Anne Applebaum wrote today, Donald Trump’s threatening message to the Norwegian prime minister should, in any responsible democracy, force the rest of the U.S. political system to act to control him. The president is talking about an invasion that would require “citizens of a treaty ally,” as she put it, “to become American against their will,” all because he “now genuinely lives in a different reality.” And yet neither Congress nor the sycophants in the White House seem willing to stop him.
*🎁 link
Historically, is this how military coups are triggered?
General: today, we’re doing planning for invading Greenland. I know everyone hates it and it’s a waste of time, but the Commander-in-Chief has ordered it. Admiral, can you get us started?
Admiral: invading Greenland would be an illegal order, and we are required to ignore illegal orders. We would deploy 400,000 gallons of hot chocolate and instruct our soldiers to get out their comfy slippers and watch Heated Rivalry.
General: And that successfully concludes our planning exercise for invading Greenland. I’ll see you all on the golf course.
Let’s put on our risk management hats to ensure there is nobody getting sick from the huge quantity of milk required to be kept within a narrow temperature range in order to fully supply the hot chocolate. We need some logistic support.
Current pending deployments are going to be: Greenland, Canada, and America’s own cities.
Is this what you signed up for?
There are likely some that don’t care who they get to shoot at
For many people, I suspect the answer would be “Fuck yeah, finally the leash is coming off!”
You dont have to obey illegal orders.
In fact, UCMJ makes it quite clear: you have to refuse them.
What’s the illegal order then? Is it illegal to attack an ally because you want something they have? There probably isn’t a law against that specifically, and if there is, how are service members going to know that?
Only congress can declare war.
That is true but he didn’t declare war so he didn’t break the law. I WISH that we’re breaking the law but the fact is Congress has abdicated that responsibility and there is precedent to support the executive killing people with the use of the military.
We need Congress to stand up for itself and revoke the ability to abuse the use of the armed forces, by making laws that have consequences and enforce those consequences on any executive who breaks them, even if they’re in the majority’s party.
The terms of the Treaty of the Danish West Indies involves the US giving up all claims and intents on the island of Greenland as part of the deal that saw the US gain the Virgin Islands.
So there is a 109ish year old law.
I only wish treaties were upheld as laws are but we have a long history of treaties being broken and no trial took place other than a trial of arms. If only we had an international court, unanimously agreed upon by the nations of the world.
One of the core reasons I’m positive the US is irredeemably cooked is that “liberals” continue to believe that the rule of law applies to a fascist oligarchy who has ignored and violated the greatest laws of the land; not just recently, but for most of their lives.
The 50+ year corporate-fascist-alliance coup is in it’s final hours, yet still. Remember, the Democrats didn’t release the Epstein files either, because they’re financed by the same sociopathic/psychopathic pedophile elite.
Someone asked for an illegal order, one was provided and you didn’t read the context and instead pretended people think the rules existing means they cannot be broken.
take your pick:
-
deployment to Minneapolis (under what trump himself has called an invasion.) (don’t believe his lies. the only unrest here is brought by federal agents violating the shit out of our rights.)
-
initiating what is certainly an act of war in Venezuela.
-
Same for Denmark should that happen.
-
using the military to engage civilian ships in Venezuelan waters with lethal force rather than using the cost guard for police actions.
Also to your specific example, yes, it is. Constitutionally, the president is not allowed to initiate wars without approval by congress. This has been pissed away for longer than I’ve been alive, using ‘authorizations’ but it’s still largely there. (Korea, Vietnam. Iraq/Afghanistan, etc.) the only currently still active war authorization is related to the 2002 authorization meant to go after the people behind 9/11, and any attempt to link that to Venezuela is going to be a lie. (never mind Greenland and the rest of NATO.)
Congress has largely looked the other way for some 50 years as far as war powers go (along with a lot more of its exclusive power). Worse yet while there is text to say that the executive will execute the laws created by congress, they largely pick and choose the laws they enforce and to what degree, which is constantly ignored (especially when the executive and majority in congress share the same party).
We now have a situation where the executive sees how loose the responsibility and accountability congress wields, and now decides to violate the norms and there no standard for congress to follow. Congress all seem to be looking at each other shrugging, while rank and file military see nothing in a future of pain and loss for standing up to do the right thing because ultimately nobody has thier backs.
using the military to engage civilian ships in Venezuelan waters with lethal force rather than using the cost guard for police actions.
So that’s illegal but the soldiers followed those orders and killed civilians. I don’t see how that’s a good look for what’s coming up.
-
From the article:
“The U.S. military is obligated by law, and by every tradition of American decency, to refuse to follow illegal orders. But what about orders that may not be illegal but are clearly immoral and illogical?…”
Yeah, that’s totally going to stop them.
There are 2 options:
- Disobey the order
- Impeachment
Trump has already been impeached multiple times his first term, idk what is happening.
Impeachment just says that congress cam try him. Removal is what we want and ehat they never agree to do.
There is another
Surprising that the military can be forced to do anything
Dishonorable discharge and/or military prison is pretty impossible to come back from in a socioeconomic sense. These people have entire families relying in them. It’s either follow orders, or ruin their family. And if you can sit there and wave that off, you lived a charmed life in comparison.
Getting blown up by a missile fired for stupid reasons is pretty hard to come back from in a literal sense
You can say the same to the many, many people who say “Why don’t Americans do a Second Amendment?”
if you are dishonorably discharged for ignoring an illegal order, you are not actually dishonorably discharged.
also: the real solution here is to provide both exit support for those who realize joining was fucking stupid and to convince those who think about joining that they should absolutely not join.
anyone who stays in, or joins (VOLUNTEERS!) fully knowing what the US does these days, is a fucking piece of utter shit trash.
Please don’t be so ignorant. It’s never that black and white. And if you are dishonorably discharged, nothing they say will make that stigma go away.
High horses don’t matter when the bill collectors and repo men come knocking.
People joining today, maybe. But there are people who joined before this stupid shit went down. And they probably joined as a last resort because they felt they had no other choice. That happens. Not everyone is blessed with options.
ergo the support for those in and wanting to get out.
those in who want to stay in can go fuck themselves.
Please stop acting high and mighty for shit you know nothing about. The military is not some at-will job you can just up and quit. It doesn’t work that way.
anyone in currently joined as a volunteer. anyone who stays because they want to is a fucking piece of shit. anyone who is actively researching legal support to get out is doing the right thing.
the math is not that hard. do you not understand? those who want to be there are fucking pieces of shit.
especially being pushed around by a drunkin idiot and a short orange senile moron barkin at them
