• mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de
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          7 days ago

          I guess the view that I want to articulate could be represented as a trolley meme with the following changes:

          1. The lever has only some unknown probability of steering the trolley’s path
          2. Millions of other people also influence the lever to degrees which are unknown
          3. The track splits into at least 10 different paths instead of two
          4. There are more splits off of each subsequent path
          5. Each path also produces benefits to some actors (not sure how we’d represent that)

          If I try to simplify these changes, though, then maybe I could depict my view a bit like this?

            • mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de
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              7 days ago

              Yes, despite my sassiness towards you in this thread this is a true and wise observation that goes ignored too often. My disagreements are not pertaining to the idea of inaction constituting action

              • Godric@lemmy.worldOP
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                7 days ago

                No worries, I would 100% prefer the proverbial third track, but it isn’t connected yet. In the meantime, I’ll have extreme disdain for the jackasses standing around moralizing while the train is actively running people over.

                Political power is gained via votes! Vote! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

                • mfed1122@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  7 days ago

                  I mean, yeah, this is why I think my picture turned out pretty good, Because the blue option is the better one in every single junction, but the best outcome cannot be reached by always traversing the blue path. It’s interesting to try to figure out which path in that diagram produces the best overall outcome, and then compare that with what produces the best outcome if we only consider the most immediate results. I’m curious which colors you’d vote for if you were at the first junction in my diagram, knowing that your vote does not guarantee the outcome?

        • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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          7 days ago

          i mean not really, it’s not out of moralism that i choose not to vote for genocidal warmonger red/blue, in fact the moralism is thinking voting for genocidaires is ‘pragmatic’. not to mention continuing to votescold people over a year later lmao

          organizing outside electoralism builds actual power. voting for slightly different managers of the same bloodthirsty war machine doesn’t

          • Godric@lemmy.worldOP
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            7 days ago

            While organizing outside electoralism is great, electoralism is still the primary way power is apportioned in this country. Abandoning electoralism is ceding power to people who will use it for evil.

            The stakes are the future of the world.

            • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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              7 days ago

              if the ‘future of the world’ hinges on genociding an expendible out-group and the system is powerless to change that, then i choose to walk away from omelas

                • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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                  7 days ago

                  voting against genocide and organizing outside a system which can’t stop empowering genocidal warmongers is actually in line with both my principles and my morals

            • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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              7 days ago

              Voting for neither is the same as voting for both.

              if voting for neither is the same voting for both, then can we formally acknowledge that my vote makes zero difference and maybe people can stop votescolding?

              • starik@lemmy.zip
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                6 days ago

                No, because voting for one is not the same as voting for neither/both.

                Voting for the perfect candidate > voting for A > not voting > voting for B

                The perfect candidate didn’t exist, but instead of choosing the second best option, you chose the third best option, and we ended up with the worst option because a lot of people did what you did. Thanks a bunch.

    • Zoot@reddthat.com
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      6 days ago

      Can you explain this to me like I’m dumb? Cause I am. Is this making fun of the people who choose someone who’s literally not connected to the track?

    • samus12345@sh.itjust.works
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      7 days ago

      Needs to be updated to add the Iranian flag to the GOP track. Man, do I wish there were a realistic way to choose that bottom track!

      • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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        7 days ago

        it’s simple, you just don’t vote for the genocidal warmonger party, then if enough people do that you win

        blowing up/ derailing the trolly also works

        • samus12345@sh.itjust.works
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          7 days ago

          And there’s no viable way to do that under the current system, which is why the track isn’t connected.

          • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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            7 days ago

            i love how you concede that the system is so dysfunctional you can’t even oppose a genocide under it and simultaneously expect me to to believe that individuals voting (or not) is somehow making a meaningful difference in the outcome

        • grue@lemmy.world
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          7 days ago

          it’s simple, you just don’t vote for the genocidal warmonger party, then if enough people do that you win

          THAT’S NOT HOW VOTING WORKS!

          People have to vote FOR the OTHER party, or else the genocidal warmonger party wins anyway!

          You are saying shit that is both moronic and factually untrue.

          • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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            7 days ago

            you know there’s a non-genocidal warmonger party which could also be voted for.

            I voted for them last election and don’t regret it

            • grue@lemmy.world
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              7 days ago

              you know there’s a non-genocidal warmonger party which could also be voted for.

              No there fucking wasn’t! Not one that could win! You’re a goddamned liar and you are helping the fascists!

              • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.ml
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                7 days ago

                there’s no way anyone could help the fascists more than an ‘opposition’ party which routinely fails to actually oppose them

                if the democrats had any principles and actually opposed fascism they wouldn’t spend so much time punching left

                • grue@lemmy.world
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                  7 days ago

                  there’s no way anyone could help the fascists more than an ‘opposition’ party which routinely fails to actually oppose them

                  Yes there is. By actively discouraging opposition to the fascists, which is what you’re doing. You are literally delusional.

                  if the democrats had any principles and actually opposed fascism they wouldn’t spend so much time punching left

                  I’m not even saying you’re wrong about the Democrats; I’m saying you’re wrong about motherfucking GAME THEORY and MATH! Even acknowledging what you just wrote, YOU STILL HAVE TO VOTE FOR THEM ANYWAY!

      • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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        6 days ago

        funnything in rick and morty, the very same episode supernova says"what is is-rayel" referring to israel, rick and morty and FAMILY guy are 1 of the 2 shows that poke fun of the ridiculous of hte gaza/palestine conflict.