It’s easy to simply call people “pro-Putinists” and then make lists, crack down on them, repress them, etc. Calling anti-system agitators “foreign agents” or “foreign influenced” is a time-tested tool of fascism.
I don’t believe this wide sweeping, that you refer to, will occur.
People who support the aggressive nation of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine are, in fact, very identifiable. You are not innocent “anti-war activists”. You support an aggressive neighbor.
I don’t support “cracking down on” you. I DO support you being barred from holding certain positions in defense and similar.
The sweeping is already happening, I linked groups like BreakThrough News, PSL, and the DSA getting targeted by the US state under the excuse of “foreign interference and domestic terrorism.” They all have anti-war positions that I share, and yet you label this as “pro-Russian” and wish state repression upon me, with regular surveillance to make sure I cannot continue organizing as a socialist. Read the links I provided.
I am not in a position to really voice my opinion on the cases in those, very short, articles, since they describe an area I am very unfamiliar with. They are unrelated to Russia-Ukraine.
All 3 are socialist organizations that oppose the continued involvement in the Russo-Ukrainian war, and oppose building up NATO even further. They are all socialist organizations, and are all labeled as “pro-Russia” for their opposition to building up the western military industrial complex even further.
The left’s capacity to build knowledge, organization, and struggle was a central theme at this year’s ManiFiesta, introduced during a discussion of Peter Mertens’ new book, “The Last Days of the Old Normal“. In the context of Europe’s ongoing armament, these questions are crucial not only for progressive movements in core countries but also for those building alternatives in Central and Eastern Europe.
The festival featured several sessions examining developments in Central and Eastern Europe, including an intervention by Ukrainian sociologist Volodymyr Ishchenko on the class character of the Ukraine war. Another session – “East of the former wall: the AfD, the industrial crisis, and the war economy” – brought together Markéta Juřicová of the Czech party Levice, Orsolya Haboczki from the Hungarian progressive movement Szikra, German Bundestag representative Cem Ince from Die Linke, and Member of the European Parliament Marc Botenga from the Workers’ Party of Belgium (PTB-PVDA).
They discussed how the growth of the far right in core EU countries is interacting with events eastwards – and what lessons Western left movements can learn from their Eastern counterparts.
The war in Ukraine is a disaster for working class people in Ukraine, the region, and a terrible threat to us all, including increasing the danger of nuclear war and exacerbating global economic crises. We oppose the Russian invasion and call for the withdrawal of Russian troops through a settled ceasefire agreement. We recognize that the expansion of NATO and the aggressive approach of Western nations have helped cause the crisis and we demand an end to NATO expansion. We also oppose US and NATO military interventionism and the tens of billions in military aid and weapons shipments which only further exacerbates the war and undermine a negotiated settlement, as well as sanctions that will harm ordinary Russians. We call on the US and other countries to welcome refugees fleeing the war and provide needed humanitarian aid.
Join us as we build a mass unified global anti-war response to say No to War in Ukraine; Yes to Diplomacy and Peace.
The deadly fighting currently raging across Ukraine is a tragedy. In any war, the working class of the nations involved are the ones to bear the brunt of the hardship and suffering. From 1922 until the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the peoples of Ukraine and Russia lived in peace. They were partners in a socialist planned economy and together they defeated the fascist Nazi invasion of 1941 at the cost of 27 million Soviet lives. The bourgeois-led counter-revolution that dissolved the Soviet Union separated the peoples and republics. This animus and hostility that followed was the predictable outcome of the end of socialism and the beginning of capitalist competition.
While we do not support the Russian invasion, we reserve our strongest condemnation for the U.S. government, which rejected Russia’s legitimate security concerns in the region with total intransigence that they knew could provoke such a war. This is the consequence of decades of U.S.-NATO bullying and humiliating Russia. The Party for Socialism and Liberation demands that the U.S. government and its allies in the imperialist NATO military alliance immediately cease their provocative behavior designed to escalate the crisis and provide security guarantees that can be the foundation for the restoration of peace — the cornerstone of which must be a pledge to end NATO expansion. This is what can bring relief to the people of Ukraine.
They are all socialist organizations that oppose the increased militarism of western countries that has enabled the genocide in Palestine and the invasion of Iran, that presently prolongs the war in Ukraine not to help the Ukrainian people, but to profit off of the bloodshed. This is all deeply interconnected.
Even if you truly only wanted to harm the supposed “pro-Putinists,” such a law has historically been used to crack down on any dissent.
In the articles you linked, it seemed like they were raided by a pro-Putin, Trump-aligned government for collaboration (real or imagined) with Cuba. With my lack of knowledge on the subject, I am unfit to comment on these exact cases and whether it is fair that they were raided. But for their very public comments on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, yes, I do agree that the relevant individuals should be barred from holding positions in security and defense. Though, it happened in Usa, a country I have no say in.
Once again, I am not supporting a widespread, heavy handed rounding up of groups and putting them in jail. Please understand this.
Edit: also it is a bad look to link to wikipedia as a source for a claim
You are supporting a crackdown on the biggest socialist organizations in western countries on the basis of being “pro-Putinist.” The Breakthrough News article specifically mentions European groups like PTB and Die Linke that also oppose increased militarism. The “pro-Putinist” position does not exist among the group you claim it does. Again, anti-war advocacy is confused for pro-adversary advocacy deliberately as an excuse to crack down on leftists.
You are supporting a crackdown on the biggest socialist organizations in western countries on the basis of being “pro-Putinist.”
Where did I express this view?
The Breakthrough News article specifically mentions European groups like PTB and Die Linke that also oppose increased militarism.
This is bad depending on the extend.
The “pro-Putinist” position does not exist among the group you claim it does. Again, anti-war advocacy is confused for pro-adversary advocacy deliberately as an excuse to crack down on leftists.
Supporting closing off support to Ukraine is not neutral. And as a whole, lack of support for Ukraine is a fringe position in European progressive parties.
You agreed that the DSA, PTB, Die Linke, PSL, and Breakthrough News should all be considered “pro-Putinist” and therefore subject to state surveilance and prevented from any position of power. I never claimed opposition to increased militarism is “neutral,” rather that it is aimed at peace in Ukraine and an end to the far-right slide Europe and the US are experiencing right this minute. It does not imply “pro-Putinism.” You are labeling any opposition to the buildup of a genocidal military apparatus as supporting Putin, and the advocacy itself as deserving of special state repression.
As I said in my original comment:
It’s easy to simply call people “pro-Putinists” and then make lists, crack down on them, repress them, etc. Calling anti-system agitators “foreign agents” or “foreign influenced” is a time-tested tool of fascism.
I don’t believe this wide sweeping, that you refer to, will occur.
People who support the aggressive nation of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine are, in fact, very identifiable. You are not innocent “anti-war activists”. You support an aggressive neighbor.
I don’t support “cracking down on” you. I DO support you being barred from holding certain positions in defense and similar.
The sweeping is already happening, I linked groups like BreakThrough News, PSL, and the DSA getting targeted by the US state under the excuse of “foreign interference and domestic terrorism.” They all have anti-war positions that I share, and yet you label this as “pro-Russian” and wish state repression upon me, with regular surveillance to make sure I cannot continue organizing as a socialist. Read the links I provided.
I am not in a position to really voice my opinion on the cases in those, very short, articles, since they describe an area I am very unfamiliar with. They are unrelated to Russia-Ukraine.
All 3 are socialist organizations that oppose the continued involvement in the Russo-Ukrainian war, and oppose building up NATO even further. They are all socialist organizations, and are all labeled as “pro-Russia” for their opposition to building up the western military industrial complex even further.
Breakthrough News: Anti-Millitarism unites progressives across Europe
Democratic Socialists of America: Peace in Ukraine
The Party for Socialism and Liberation: PSL Statement on Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine
They are all socialist organizations that oppose the increased militarism of western countries that has enabled the genocide in Palestine and the invasion of Iran, that presently prolongs the war in Ukraine not to help the Ukrainian people, but to profit off of the bloodshed. This is all deeply interconnected.
Even if you truly only wanted to harm the supposed “pro-Putinists,” such a law has historically been used to crack down on any dissent.
It seems like a fair bit of context is missing.
In the articles you linked, it seemed like they were raided by a pro-Putin, Trump-aligned government for collaboration (real or imagined) with Cuba. With my lack of knowledge on the subject, I am unfit to comment on these exact cases and whether it is fair that they were raided. But for their very public comments on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, yes, I do agree that the relevant individuals should be barred from holding positions in security and defense. Though, it happened in Usa, a country I have no say in.
Once again, I am not supporting a widespread, heavy handed rounding up of groups and putting them in jail. Please understand this.
Edit: also it is a bad look to link to wikipedia as a source for a claim
You are supporting a crackdown on the biggest socialist organizations in western countries on the basis of being “pro-Putinist.” The Breakthrough News article specifically mentions European groups like PTB and Die Linke that also oppose increased militarism. The “pro-Putinist” position does not exist among the group you claim it does. Again, anti-war advocacy is confused for pro-adversary advocacy deliberately as an excuse to crack down on leftists.
Where did I express this view?
This is bad depending on the extend.
Supporting closing off support to Ukraine is not neutral. And as a whole, lack of support for Ukraine is a fringe position in European progressive parties.
You agreed that the DSA, PTB, Die Linke, PSL, and Breakthrough News should all be considered “pro-Putinist” and therefore subject to state surveilance and prevented from any position of power. I never claimed opposition to increased militarism is “neutral,” rather that it is aimed at peace in Ukraine and an end to the far-right slide Europe and the US are experiencing right this minute. It does not imply “pro-Putinism.” You are labeling any opposition to the buildup of a genocidal military apparatus as supporting Putin, and the advocacy itself as deserving of special state repression.