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When you read the First They Came poem as a guide instead of as a warning. It’s fucking wild man.
MLs are pro violent suppression of any dissenting opinion they have no leg to stand on. The first they came poem is completely irrelevant here. Theres no evidence to suggest monitoring Russian foreign agents leading to anything remotely similar to the Nazi machine.
Lists of individual people, famously a tool of the liberator class 👍
MLs are obnoxious, but this ain’t it.
The nazis are mask off these days
Can we not do a surveillance state, pls?
Plus, I doubt anyone on .ml touches grass enough to be a security risk :P
Sorry, I’m a certified grass-toucher.
I regret to inform you that not only do I touch grass, i get involved in local politics too. All of my municipal representatives, mayor, state reps know me and my politics. 🙃
People attacking the .ml people for organizing while under pressure from the biggest worldwide alt right push in our generation is the funniest shit to me. God forbid the leftists start thinking collectively, you saw what happened to the donald? We’re currently fucked by all that chicanery but heavens forbid you start thinking in the opposite direction too much, wouldn’t want to get out of the right wing mess that we’re living through, least of all if we put in place all those policies my right wing propaganda says are evil. Yeah this is so seruious that we should definitely all quickly jump into being right wing surveillance states to prevent the leftists from doing something about us all eating massive amounts of shit right now.
They are authoritarians. They are only against trump because its not their boot thats stomping. They dont fight trump they only fight the left.
see that’s the funny bit. I’ve met like 2 self proclaimed tankies irl, all other leftists think they’re lame as hell.
they don’t organize, they just sit behind keyboards and pretend they are.
as long as they show up and help, I have never met anyone who has a problem with them existing in irl leftists groups on ideology alone. it’s when they say shit like Ukraine is full of Nazis, or voting isn’t even worth showing up to the polls, or that the uyghur genocide is a lie, then they gotta go.
People attacking the .ml people for organizing while under pressure from the biggest worldwide alt right push in our generation is the funniest shit to me
There can often be a lot of apathy and de-motivation coming out of
.ml; particularly around elections and harm minimization. The way they talk about voting you would think its as much effort as having a week long strike.
We could have better discourse and solidarity.
Since you’re using me as an example, my point is about the enormous efforts and resources some organizations pour into increasing voter turnout and electoral strategies over the time-tested and far more effective strategies of actually struggling and organizing. No, an individual taking a couple hours to vote isn’t a problem. It’s a problem when an organization makes preparing for, canvassing for, advertising for, and organizing for elections their primary focus. That takes far more effort than even week-long strikes, yet it’s a common strategy.
The point isn’t that individuals shouldn’t spend a couple hours to vote. The point is that voting cannot establish socialism, so organizations that pour a ton of resources into electoral campaigns are wasting valuable resources that could be poured into unionizing, organizing tenants, educating cadre, and growing the organization through on-the-ground struggle.
It’s intensely dishonest to frame it as opposition to spending a couple hours voting on election day. The entire political theatrics that surround elections is a months-years long process that takes up mountains of resources better spent on growing and organizing than pinning all hopes on candidates being able to change the system from within.
I’ve said this time and time again. They do not care about Palestinians either. They want people like Trump in charge, because they’re just fascists in a different coat of paint and millions or even tens of millions of casualties is completely fine as long as it harms the reputation of a western country, any of them in fact.
None of us want Trump in charge. Accusing communists of being fascists or not supporting Palestinians simply because we emphasize the importance of grassroots organizing over trying to change the system from within is dishonest.
Nah, that’s a complete mischaracterization
They want people like Trump in charge
wrong, i absolutely do not want trump in charge. i want the democrats to suck less. i put the 2024 election loss at their feet. i wish they had actually delivered things for people (other than bombs to the genocide) so they didn’t eat shit.
the people blaming voters for the democrats obscene incompetence are actively making things worse by refusing to learn anything.
i wish they had actually delivered things for people (other than bombs to the genocide) so they didn’t eat shit.
@boonhet@sopuli.xyz, see I don’t think they are being fake here. They have a point here.
Still they are not under siege, so its easy to keep your purity clean and say something is not good enough. Would a total stop to support of Israel be good? Of course. The overall tone is all or nothing; which surprise they got nothing given their tendency to walk away from the table and surrender all possible influence they might have, so they cannot even muster a reduction of aid to Israel.
Its not clear what their superior community engagement has brought to that or other causes. I suppose they could travel to Yemen and enlist in the Houthis’ army. For what its worth they did say they are standing up to Israel and taking serious action.
the people blaming voters for the democrats obscene incompetence are actively making things worse by refusing to learn anything.
Its a fair point, but also a self fulfilling prophecy. If you walk away from the conversation you lose your position. It is not a surprise that those who left got nothing. Or that when they return they have nothing to build from their previous success. Mamdani is a good example here. The DSA can point to his record for re-election and other DSA can point to him and say lets bring that here; rather than just abstract talking points.
Its okay if
.mlisn’t the tip of the spear on the electoral front, but their disparaging is counter productive and damages overall leftist unity.
In a war of memes and information bubbles, people not touching grass is a security risk
crazy how the main audience for this kind of two minutes hate thread for .ml is always zionists
I wouldn’t consider folks from .ml to be dangerous tho - they are simply a book club that is being mean to people on internet.
Right-wingers, who don’t touch grass, on the other hand, are far more dangerous - just remember QAnon, this shit was started by some 4chan troll.
Ironically I don’t think anyone considered 4chan very dangerous until the whole QAnon shit.
It is called “Memetic warfare” or “5th-generation warfare” and it is as real as MOABs
Eh, I think there’s a decent amount of intellectual overlap between authoritarian right wingers and authoritarian left wingers. They will both prioritize state control over people.
This. I was going to ask if MAGA are dangerous.
Information bubbles are dangerous. Tribalism is dangerous.
The antidotes are inclusivity and critical thinking
Plus, I doubt anyone on .ml touches grass enough to be a security risk :P
who do you think are the people recruited for a terrorist attacks here and there? they are not from taylor swift fanclub. most of them won’t go further than bitching on the internet from their parents basement and will never be a problem in real life, but 1 in 1000 is all it takes.
I dislike the lemmy.ml user base as much or more than the next guy.
I think that Europe has criminally underfunded its defense for a long time, and that they need to bulk up considering the existential Russian threat
Yet despite all that, I feel like the real asshat in this thread is the OP.
The only thing more annoying than .ml cringe posters are people that make their entire argument “.ml of course”.
I forget I’m from .ml most the time. Until I get a “oh you would say that as a .ml”. It’s pretty helpful for telling me that a conversation will go nowhere.
oh you would say that as a .ml
It’s astrology but for the fediverse
Your Sun is in .ml, meaning you’re fundamentally opinionated and fierce. Incompatible with .world, and you can tolerate dbzer0s in group settings, but don’t work well together one-on-one.
yeah, i forget i am a nazi most of the time. then i look at the mirror and notice i am wearing a nazi uniform 😂
I don’t really see any of you breaking ranks or ever pumping the brakes on a dogpile so it kind of stands. There’s not really anything to learn from people who eschewed all individuality or basic self restraint just to make sure they never get verbally bullied by Nazis again
I rest my case.
We both knew what this was. we didn’t comment on this trash meme to talk to eachother
Bro wtf are you talking about
Couldn’t read two sentences :( reading is hard
Europeans making lists of “undesirables” I am shocked /s.
Something something first as tragedy second as farce.
russians also have a long list
listed
Thank you for the notification obergruppenfuhrer I look forward to your attempt to extradite me from China for the crime of being Chinese.
obergruppenfuhrer?
how does scribbling down a name warrant a comparison to Nazi Germany?
You don’t see how making lists of “undesirables” to enact “justice” upon is reminiscent?
Yeah I really hate that Lenin, Stalin, and Mao did that.
Oh, sorry, we were talking about nazis. Them too.
said tankie, the guardian of the oppressed, the protector of democracy 😂
You don’t see how making lists of “undesirables” to enact “justice” upon is reminiscent?
The irony of a Chinese person making this statement is sending me.
Not particularly ironic if you’re not an orientalist. I hope it “sends” you into some introspection and research.
I know you tankies love to pretend otherwise in order to paint any criticism of your flavor of authoritarianism as racism, but:
CCP ≠ China ≠ the Chinese people
Is it possible GreenBeard was being racist? Definitely. But to jump to that because they appear to be criticizing the CCP is… transparently ridiculous.
Bro.
I haven’t written anything down. You made your own post history in a lemmy instance known for being pro-Russia/anti-Ukraine.
how does scribbling down a name warrant a comparison to Nazi Germany?
How does it? Simple journalism.
It was one of George Orwell’s favorite hobbies, after all.
In 1949, shortly before he died, English author George Orwell prepared a list of notable writers and other people he considered to be unsuitable as possible writers for the anti-communist propaganda activities of the Information Research Department, a secret propaganda organisation of the British state under the Foreign Office. A copy of the list was published in The Guardian in 2003 and the original was released by the Foreign Office soon after.
Well what else was he supposed to do with all that free time between writing his mediocre books and being a sex pest.
I never liked his books
I’m an outspoken critic of his sex pestness.
Last 5 years? We know exactly what politicians worked for Putin for the last 30 years. We know they are a security risk but there’s nothing we can do about it. Nothing legal that is.
Liberals love being bootlickers for state violence. Classic.
Frauds love leading impressionable people to believe that Democrats are worse than Republicans.
Genuine question: What could the Democratic Party do that would make you stop supporting them? Because clearly, a literal genocide isn’t it.
Genuine question, what would republicans do for you to not shill for them? Because the thing you claim to care about, literal genocide, isn’t one of them.
“DUUHHHH UR A REPUBLIKAAN DUHHH” 😂
Great rebuttal jackass. You’re really showcasing the intellectual integrity of an average Democrat. Are you going to answer the question or not?
Weird how you don’t like the inverse of that question. Shocking, really.
The answer is I don’t shill for them. But what I do know with you American supremacists is that upon me saying this, you will instantly enter into pedanticism in order to dodge the question I just asked. Prove me right please :)
Ah I just noticed your account age and skimmed your history. Won’t be making the mistake again of thinking there’s a 5% chance you’re not a bad faith actor.
Ok and I’m so sure this is good faith on your part! As long as republicans are worse than democrats, I am forced to vote for democrats in almost every context. This is not a real choice, it is the only moral one. I am not someone who can pretend taking a symbolic stand is more important than actually minimizing harm.
These conversations are literally never useful though, because you would rather commit seppuku than acknowledge that third parties have little to no chance of victory. Now, prove me right!
They are two sides of the same coin.
I understand that you want people to believe Democrats are the same or worse than Republicans. This is the lie you keep pushing constantly and is why I’m replying to you
Demonstrably they fight for all the same people and none of them are you or me. Dems are just Republicans with pride flags. They support every single evil thing just the same but mildly better optics (sometimes).
Right, this is the lie you’re spreading. Democrats are objectively far better in every aspect. The fact that they partially are terrible people can never change the facts. The US electoral system all but guarantees third parties losing. No amount of lying can change that. If you care about any vulnerable people, Democrats are your only option 99% of the time, which is another thing that lying cannot wash away.
Neo-McCarthyism. As usual, the anti-war activists are going to be labeled “enemies of the state,” foreign actors, etc. It’s already happening to BreakThrough News, the DSA, PSL, etc.
ur on da lisd
srr bru
Hopefully my OPSEC is good enough to keep me safe, but organizing as a communist is always a risk.
You’ll be found out and barred from jobs you could never dream off anyways.
Calm your victim complex.
NSPM-7 is a real program targeting any organization against the capitalist state. This isn’t a “victim complex,” it’s the real present day state repressions.
I am like Kraut, referring to pro-Putinists, which include individuals in a wide
assemblyrange of political positions and whether they can sit in high level positions in the defence, etc.As I said in my original comment:
As usual, the anti-war activists are going to be labeled “enemies of the state,” foreign actors, etc. It’s already happening to BreakThrough News, the DSA, PSL, etc.
It’s easy to simply call people “pro-Putinists” and then make lists, crack down on them, repress them, etc. Calling anti-system agitators “foreign agents” or “foreign influenced” is a time-tested tool of fascism.
I don’t believe this wide sweeping, that you refer to, will occur.
People who support the aggressive nation of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine are, in fact, very identifiable. You are not innocent “anti-war activists”. You support an aggressive neighbor.
I don’t support “cracking down on” you. I DO support you being barred from holding certain positions in defense and similar.
Everyone who doesn’t agree with me is a filthy foreign enemy, news at 11.
Funnily enough, you’ll hear something very similar from the European far right parties. It’s almost like both of these extremes are funded by the same interests…
I don’t propagandise for Russia, or ‘demand’ anything from Europe. But I’m completely against rising the military spending, with my money at least, the supporters can open a gofundme and dump all their savings in it if they want. If the oop knew something about European history or the current socio-political landscape they would know that their own armed forces are the bigger ‘real security risk’ for most European countries.
I also hope all these spend-risers, and their kids, are the first to enlist and volunteer for the front lines.
No neutrality on this topic. Russia is an aggressor in this conflict and have started multiple wars with their neighbors for years.
None of this neighbours were in NATO or the EU. European military budgets are alright, and Russia is in no way a threat. Ukraine (which I’m in favour to support with arms, intelligence, money… or whatever they need) is giving them some hell with just a tiny fraction of the equipment and personnel.
At my workplace we have them eurofighters flying overhead every weekday (today I’ve seen also a chinook, and one of those massive transport planes with four propellers) burning my tax euros. I think they have plenty of money already. We could send those fighter right now to guard the airspace near Ukraine and Belarus that has been violated several times, I’ll support that. But stop already with the bootlicking and warmongering, please.
Comment below me says “listed”
PeanortiddieAIDS
