Conservative groups influential with the Trump administration have pressed for the preemptive acts of clemency.
There’s a world of difference between a pardon issues to prevent malicious prosecution for non-crimew and one issued to people you’ve been instructing to commit crimes
Pardon’s must be nullified. You cannot pardon betraying the constitution or you invite future attempts.
If they do this, I say we should ignore the rule of law and hang them after a mass trial. Frankly, pardons have been used to abuse America’s trust and integrity, not to any good end.
I get it, the Dems are spineless law followers.
But we are no longer a nation of laws. Just exec order an unpardon and ham on.
Also, maybe they can’t. Define the crime, please. Can’t pardon for “everything”, can you?
Ugh Next government better recall all these dollarstore pardons and reverse the Epstein agenda…
There is no legal mechanism to rescind a pardon.
Yeah… there has been no legal mechanism for most of what trump has gotten done. Lock em up anyways and don’t explain shit. And whenever asked about it the administration can just laugh and move on to the next question.
Sadly im not sure recalling a pardon is possible, even if its ill gotten
Okay.
Shoot them and pardon the shooters.
Gosh, so weird. I would think the most bestest and most transparent admin in history would not need any kind of pardons?
Pardons for…what?
A pardon is an admittance of criminality and guilt.
They should’ve treated as criminals until they make amends to society.
I don’t agree with that necessarily when people cheer to lock someone up without a cause. Like if a president came forward and pardoned say all the people who have immigrated to this country for any previous issues while filing out immigration paperwork, such as typos name changes, and so on then it isn’t directly to cover for guilt, but rather to protect a group of people from harassment.
Edit then you can institute a review process and further assistance while submitting such paperwork in the future and it could mitigate witch hunts and mistreatment of people
I hear what you are saying, but legally that isn’t how it works. The previous commenter is correct, legally speaking in the US. A pardon is absolutely an admission of guilt.
There are ways around this. You can submit an Alford Plea at your original trial, which again would still indicate guilt under the law, but is a way that a defendant can legally enter into the record that they are “innocent of the charges, but due to circumstances beyond their control, one will submit to the punishment.”
IANYL. I don’t know how this would actually play out inside the bureaucracy.
No a pardon doesn’t have to do with guilt. Guilt is depicted by a judge/jury or by taking a plea deal. A pardon can occur before charges are even filed, and one cannot be declared guilty until a conviction is made… Which would never come to be.
So legally yes, that’s exactly how it works. If Trump pardons Kushner for using U.S. funds and negotiating on behalf of the U.S. like Kushners lawyer recognized he was the signatory on an account holding $770 million dollars but did not make any decisions without Trump approval.
No charges have yet been brought against him. If said pardon goes through it doesnt mean he actually did anything wrong… it means he won’t have to appear in a federal court and explain where/when he turned over access to those accounts when Trump left office(he likely never did)
But in the U.S. you are innocent until proven guilty, and in such a case… He wasn’t proven guilty.
Republicans have been using the pardon power to reward their political operatives from the crimes they did to help their political party.
Fascists are exploiting our laws to destroy our democracy.
Yeah I mean I believe that pardons shouldn’t really exist within the executive branch. If they are necessary I feel the process would be better if the executive branch had to send names and crimes you intend to congress with a period of say 60 days to review, a hearing date is set before congress and at the end of that 60 days the executive branch sends their members to present their “case” before congress of why they are special cases and the law shouldn’t just be updated for every individual who performs these acts, past/present/future. Then if 60% of congress votes for it it goes through, or if they vote for a 60 day extension to bring any new information brought during the executive branches testimony to their constituents to see if they need to change their stance.
So effectively that would make it so congress and the executive branch have to be in agreement to overall a finding by the judicial branch. It also should prompt a review of the laws that they had broken to make sure they are brought up to date to ensure future cases aren’t need to be heard.
I fully agree that the pardon power should not be a get out of jail card for criminals.
It’s Saturday which means there’s already too much booze in me but I want a robust system that would filter out political reward pardons, wealth/personal connection pardons and any pardon that happens only because the party giving the pardon benefitted from the crime.
Also, expand SCOTUS to take away the federalist foundation’s control over the American judiciary.
Fuck Trump. But also fuck double standards.
Biden’s weak old ass pardons people that don’t need one but appointed useless Merrick Garland as attorney general. I am tired of all the weak centrist Democrats doing nothing but performative useless shit and letting all the Republicans tax cuts stay.
There’s a world of difference between a pardon issues to prevent malicious prosecution for non-crimes and one issued to people you’ve been instructing to commit crimes
You’re not wrong, of course, but that’s not how the Constitution is written. The President’s pardon power (for Federal) crimes is absolute, with the only exception being in matters of impeachment. The whole notion of pre-emptive pardons seems silly, but Biden gave one to his son and that seems to have stuck.
However, there is an idea that giving a politically-motivated pardon for an actual crime can backfire, because if someone can no longer be prosecuted for something, it also means they have no reason to take the 5th amendment that prevents them from incriminating themselves under oath. So while individuals might be pardoned, the crime was still committed, and investigators are within their rights to bring charges against people they can prosecute. When the pardoned person is questioned under oath, they have to testify truthfully (with no recourse to the 5th amendment for the crime they were pardoned for) or else they can be prosecuted for perjury… which is a new crime that was not subject to any prior pardon.
So, the pardon power is in serious need of reform. That would take a Constitutional Amendment. But we can do anything in an amendment, as long as Congress and enough States agree. We can even retroactively nullify any pardon given by Trump! I doubt it would get the 38 states required to pass if it contained that clause, but a boy can dream, can’t he?
Also interesting to note that the process of passing an amendment does not require the President at all. It does need a 2/3 majority in both houses before it goes to the States, so it’s not something Democrats can do alone. But it would be the perfect middle finger to Trumpism if they can manage to build enough support to get it passed before Trump leaves office.
I really do wish Trump would try to turn over one of those pardons to chase some made up crimes that clearly fail in court - just so he sets precedence and enables the next non-MAGA government to wipe out his pardons as well and mop up his ilk for every single cent misappropriated (not to mention the lives his regime cost, the treasons etc.)
With how far out of pocket the Trump party is right now, I could see Trump writing an executive order against a new amendment and the GOP side of the SCOTUS finding in his favor. At that point the reasonable (hork) republicans would fold and the DOJ would just stay were it is, neck deep in diaper. That would be bullshit stacked deeper than the Titan sub, but is honestly more likely than the amendment getting passed in the first place.
“Neck deep in diaper” is a new one for me. I’ll be using that going forward, thanks!
Laws are for little people.
small criminals break laws. Big criminals make laws.
It would be nice if this was a scheme for which only a few lawbreakers at the top were responsible but actually the “little people” had a choice and they’re the ones who voted to entrust Trump with the power to pardon.
I spent a lot of time knocking on doors for Harris. In the area I was, people wouldn’t trust her because of skin color and gender. They just couldn’t get past that.
You can still commit perjury during questioning about your crimes
and you can’t use the 5th amendment to refuse to answer about things you’ve been pardoned for, because there’s no risk of self-incrimination if you’re already pardoned for any potential charges
Indeed, so someone who has been pardoned federally can be compelled to testify to their crimes.
The really interesting part: When federal crimes have state criminal implications, that means during testimony, they either commit perjury by not being truthful about the crimes, can be jailed for contempt for refusing to answer, or they are truthful and while some conduct will be covered by the pardon, there’s a good chance testimony can be used to inform other non-pardonable state crimes.
Now, the question is whether anyone in positions of prosecutorial power has the guts to push, or instead will give up before trying. But they definitely can.
Prepardons for precrimes. The best of the worst here.
We need to be okay with ignoring these corrupt pardons. Start easing into it now.
Need to make political crimes un-pardonable. Retroactively.
Yes. 100%.
Arrest them. Again and again. Let the rest of their lives be spent fighting the “lawfare” they kept claiming was being waged against conservatives (but that they now aim at Democrats).
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And remember: the best we can promise is a “maybe”
LMAO!”
A blowjob is still a job!
oh no you dont
