- cross-posted to:
- fuck_ai@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- fuck_ai@lemmy.world
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Cheap GPUs when?
Was there candy inside?
No, just cockroaches
Was there candy in the cockroaches?
No, just more cockroaches
Oh dear. I guess China ain’t what it used to be.
China used to be something?
China tech stocks are back to March this year, and AI stocks are still almost half their stock index.
some context, first of all, the -40% collapse only brought the STAR50 index back to its March 2026 levels.
and the Chinese stock market is heavily moderated by the government which is very different from the US market. if the stock rallies too quickly, the government generally speaking will try to slow it down. Sometimes through explicit policies 1, sometimes through a kind of “scare tactic” 2. Conversely, when the stock drops too sharply, the government also intervenes to prop it up 3. Honestly I feel more countries should do the same.
The Chinese stock market is also much smaller relative to its GDP (101.5%) compared to the US (227%) 4. All this is to say, if you look at China and think, “huh, their AI bubble burst and they still seem to be fine?”, think again. If and when the AI bubble bursts for the US, it’s going to be much much worse.
Much less debt and financial “engineering” in China, and much lower borrowing costs.
Point 3 is the Buffet Index. In 1929 and 2007 it was at 130%. Guess where that extra 100% comes from. AI companies and AI speculation. We are so fucked.
US markets will halt trading for those same issues.
No! I wanna see CEOs and entire Boards jump out the window like in '29 dammit!
They really are beating us at everything.
They did beat America in the race towards oppressive authoritarianism, but under Trump, the U.S. has caught up a great deal. So much winning!
Oppressive authoritarianism? But tankies told me that China is a place of unbridled liberty. A land of milk and honey. Unlike the evil West which is always horrible and terrible.
You are free to want whatever you want, as long as you want what the government wants
oppressive authoritarianism
Perception is a tricky business.
But you are not posting this to talk about the perception, instead to suggest that there somehow is democracy in a state where only one party is allowed to exist.
I’m sure you’ll get similar results if you ask people in North Korea.
It’s really funny to me seeing someone using a chart showcasing oppressive authoritarianism a gotcha against an accusation of oppressive authoritarianism.
Your belief that China is an authoritarian oppressive regime seems to be unfalsifiable. If approval ratings are high it’s because the people are being silenced and secretly hate their government. If approval is low it’s because they hate their government. If the approval ratings are real then they’ve been brainwashed by nationalism.
Like everything indicates the approval ratings are real, there were studies conducted by Western universities that didn’t have stake in the matter and most Chinese citizens had a positive opinion of the PRC. There’s no way to fake this kind of stuff as well as you’re describing for decades.
There are various reasons for why I can understand Chinese citizens like China. They’re entering the golden age of their economy right now and legitimately have competitive quality of life when compared to Americans. Their country is becoming a superpower and that could be a source of national pride for some Chinese citizens. I think those reasons can explain the results without adding in coercion.
Your belief that China is an authoritarian oppressive regime is unfalsifiable.
you are taking a logical leap here. it’s more accurate to say my belief that China is an authoritarian oppressive regime is not falsifiable by a public opinion poll. there are plenty other options that may falsify it.
Okay true.
What’s your point?
That disagreement with the government is not popular there
Why not?
Because the government disappears dissenters.
People who have never experienced democracy and have only been fed lies by their authoritarian government think their country is democratic and equal. Shocker.
One can say the same about the US… Just saying.
To some extent… But in the USA until recently people never had reason to fear speaking out against their government.
Probably because it accomplishes nothing.
There’s also been a certain “Soviet democracy”, the democracy perception of which in the polls would be sky high especially under dear Stalin and Voroshilov leading it with iron hand, and less when dissent stopped getting you executed.
For managed democracy!
Happy Liberty Day!
So then why did Russians in the same study claim abysmal democracy? Aren’t they afraid of the KGB?
The Russian psyche is one of pessimistic resignation. Its also true that Russia has never experienced free democracy. There are many who believe the fall of the USSR was a terrible thing and they blame “democracy” for their current circumstances. This is part of why Putin gets away with authoritarianism.
Non sequitur that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of the graph.
Using personal opinion of crowds is notoriously very bad and people are easily misguided. ALL this says is the Chinese BELIEVE they’re democratic and all equal. Not that they actually are.
Chinese citizens BELIEVE they’re democratic and all equal. Not that they actually are.
I agree with that, yeah.
You’re right, and I see that opinion poll as a indicator of the direction that America has been going: a place where many people think they are in a democracy, while actually living in a country that is more authoritarian than it was in the past.
Also, westerners like myself tend to complain about trump/etc without acknowledging the continuum of raising fascism. We should focus on the lies we have been fed, it’s not easy, nor late ;)
Chinese who don’t say these opinions are labeled a dissonant and oppressed by their government. Just like how elections are completely staged in dictatorships.
This graph is completely useless.
These are great proof of China’s superiority! Until you see the Chinese questionnaires:
Choose an option:
[ ] My government serves the people
[ ] I want my social credit score to take a nosedive. No more bank loans, government permits, study or career opportunities for me, please!Check up on the social credit score
There have been widespread misconceptions in media reports about a unified social credit “score” based on individuals’ behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low or rewards if the score is high.
The social credit system is a broad governance strategy to track businesses, individuals, and government institutions and enhance their perceived trustworthiness rather than a single system
Awesome, just a broad strategy, not yet a single unified system. There’s still a chance to escape specific punishments.
Aw dude
Ohh hey, opinion poll, like a toilet paper.
Interesting. I think this is the first time I’ve seen the word “bubble” explicitly acknowledged as a reality and not a question in a headline of a major news outlet.
So I searched for '“bubble” in the past month from Reuters, and found several headlines raising the concern, but none actually using the word “bubble”, with the exception of one investors meeting in Singapore.
It seems that editors don’t want to scare/anger Western investors with the truth, but the Chinese are under no such burden.
It’s the usual imperial framing.
In China it’s a “bubble”, but in USA it’s a “build out”, “growth”, “boom”, or whatever…
Its been in the news, The Guardian has been calling it out…its even been called out on foxnews lol. There are others too dating back to beginning of the year too.
AI slowdown calls justified but collapse of bubble may be more immediate threat
AI bubble fears, rising treasury yields put tech stocks to the test
Just going by headline grammar, the first one is a good example: it acknowledges the bubble exist. The second makes it seem like it’s just a fear, but not necessarily a reality.
Edit: It’s this bubble is really bizarre. I hope all the pundits saying, “Nobody could have predicted” get laughed out of their careers, but I know it will never happen. Accountability is for the poor.
I hope all the pundits saying, “Nobody could have predicted” get laughed out of their careers
Lol, that would be nice, but i doubt it. Its akin to the crypto bubble…some people just get tired of the drum beating and by the time the accountability phase rolls around, theres another crisis happening lol. Never ending doom cycle.
There will be no accountability because everyone was in on it; ditto US-Iraq War 2.
yep, journalistic integrity went out the window the second the media started quoting tweets as news…now its just a mad rush to get the first clicks and most ads shoved into ones face…who cares if what you say is accurate or even truthful…gotta get that click crack…so yah, no accountability anymore.
Seems to have more to do with China than AI per-se considering that TSMC, Samsung and SK Hynix are unaffected.
Gotta be number one in everything /s
