Thats… Thats like a flat earther in computer stuff.
Do those really exist??
I know it gets thrown around a lot, but the Dunning-Kruger effect is real and applicable to people in all fields.
No matter how fanboi-y a Linux or Apple user gets, they can never out fanboi a Microsoft fanboi. They take making shit up about competitors to a entirely new level.
But once you read his words he’s got a foot in the door. Then he’s harder to ignore.
So maybe it’s harder to ignore fools on social media. Which would make social media a kind of fool-enhancer.
I guess this is where blocking comes in. But that seems drastic.
Blocking is severe, but boy is my feed clean of morons (I think I’ve only blocked like 30 people on Lemmy).
You gotta try it. Very satisfying to click ‘read all’ on your inbox now and then to clear out notifications for new (hidden) messages from trolls you’ve blocked.
what a great way to create a set of echochambers with schizo worldviews
Electron is the only cross platform gui toolkit…
If you ignore QT, GTK and everything else.
I’m so glad that Microsoft makes an awesome cross platfor— wait, no, but they contribute code to— hmmm … Hey, what does Microsoft do to make apps more portable again?
The real reasons often are:
- They want be able to hire much cheaper webdevs instead of software devs.
- Electron has a lot of built-in data collecting metrics, which they urgently need for creating a real-life KITT.
- Easy live embedding of content. Sure you can add your own solution, in fact I created ETML as a solution for this problem for my engine, all without any support for nasty scripting languages or convoluted stylesheets (style-inheritance in CSS turned me off from webdev even more than JS did). At best, it can be used for things like embedding videos on Discord, because no one else thought some universal approach, let alone one that disallows proprietary players. At worst, it’s being used for ads.
Also a lot of Windows-only apps are Electron apps, only because the manufacturer wants to go “fuck you”, even putting protections into the code just in case you wanted to run it on Linux.
EDIT: Forgot the “live embeds” reason.
Another reason is when developing the Web version first. Draw.io is a good example, where we get a bonus desktop(electron) version “for free” though the product was developed as a web app.
Also works on mobile easier, just change some CSS
one of the funniest (and sadly accurate) things i’ve heard said about linux backwards-compatibility is that its most stable API is Win32. you can run really old windows software on wine because they support stuff even windows doesn’t anymore.
of course this is because the expectation is that you can just recompile old software to work on new systems, which is not really a thing on window.s
The most stable system is one that is out of support. No updates == No breakage! 😄
It’s very amusing to imagine devs carefully watching for an EOL/EOS date and starting to build software only after
I think this is the point of Debian stable, and also why some devs hate Debian stable.
.net
.net cli apps are cross platform and can be portable :p
Gui in .net isnt fully cross platform ( maui is everything except linux ) but frameworks like avalonia ( .net ) and imgui fix all that :')Thanks for reminding me why Maui doesn’t support Linux. I saw Maui mentioned in an earlier comment and was baffled why KDE would make something not working that doesn’t work in Linux. It’s because Microsoft stole the Maui name from KDE: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Microsoft-KDE-MAUI
Does not MAUI compile to Linux, just that you need to compile on Windows?
Nope. The ui framework doesnt support linux at all. None of its cross platform claases and enums have linux. Its stupid because .net and aspcore just work on linux…
https://github.com/dotnet/maui
Android, iOS, iPadOS, macOS, and Windows
Everything but Linux, that’s funny.
I look at MAUI a year or so ago and IIRC, “official” Linux support was made by the community.
It’s so portable! With maximal efforts we support both windows 7, windows 8.1 (but not 8.0), windiws 10 and soon Windows 11 !!!
/s
You can even do inefficient UIs in Python using tkinter, which is part of the standard library in python.
Python tkinter interfaces might be inefficient, slow and require labyrinthine code to set-up and use, but they make up for it by being breathtakingly ugly.
Ugh, and they’re just weird. I can handle ugly but ktinker popups go across virtual desktops and over other windows for some ungodly reason, and never seem to dismiss themselves properly
And now imagine yourself creating an UI in tkinter without an editor. Because that’s what I did. It was absolutely horrible.
Probably faster than me even deciding the bg color tho
Flatpak
AppImage
SnapHell, let’s not forget
Python Perl
Java
POSIXThe first 3 are Linux only. It’s irrelevant.
Also each is pretty bad in terms of usability and practicality, either losing integration because “containerized” or taking GBs of space or both.
Edit: guys relax, I’m not a linux hater, I use it daily. But windows does have a unified environment, which makes deployment so much easier, while linux doesn’t. And that’s a problem since you either have old broken apps on distro repositories, or impractical, potebtially bloated, and even more fractionated environments like those I mentioned. They are patches and we should work towards a more standard environment, not adding more and more levels of abstraction like electron does.
Even Torvalds says it so.
AppImages can get quite large because each app is self-contained, but the “losing integration” part is nonsense these days for any of these formars. That’s why we have portals, and if those aren’t enough you can still give the app full permissions.
losing integration because “containerized”
Bollocks. I’ve seen that many times with Flatpak (can’t speak for Snap), and every single time it was either because the packager failed to set up permissions or because the user messed with permissions that the application needed. Break off the tip of a screwdriver and it will no longer function as a screwdriver.
And I know you’re talking out of your ass because AppImage isn’t even sandboxed.
taking GBs of space
That part is true and accurate, and for a very good reason: dependency pinning. System packages can break if they don’t have the correct versions of shared libraries. If a package requires a very old version of a library, and doesn’t link it statically or supply it with the package, it can misbehave, have missing features, or refuse to even start. Flatpak (and probably Snap too, can’t speak for it) solves that by letting the packager specify (pin) the exact version of a dependency. If five separate packages require five different versions of the GNOME application framework, then they will download five separate packages of the correct version. AppImage solves it by being monolithic: everything is packaged together into a single executable.
I don’t know if it’s still the case, but up to a couple of years ago, Flatpak was configured so that externally mounted folders were not accessible. I discovered that when Steam on flatpak refused to install games on my hdd, and it was quite frustrating to figure out how to enable it. Still, it’s difficult to criticize how “bloated” are electron apps (they are) when I need to download 2GB or runtime for an 80MB telegram binary
Snaps integration is even worse as I’ve seen browser extensions state they straight don’t work on snap’s browsers. Also desktop integration on gnone (even files drag and drop between snaps) are broken on the ubuntu installations I tried.
Appimages have the least drawbacks and are my preferred methods between the three (at least they take less storage space than an equivalent Flarpak for some reason, but are still broken sometimes), yet they still miss a central package repository, and that’s a big problem.
yet they still miss a central package repository, and that’s a big problem.
It’s a package repository, but I would hardly call it “central”
Lame attempt at ragebait.
Meanwhile Microsoft makes the start menu with React
I try not to let considerations get in the way of doing great work.
That is the most punchable response I’ve seen in a while.
When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
“… And that is how I used React as a database language.”
~me presenting at a conference in 2026
Punchable is a bit far, probably wanna tone it down a bit, big guy.
Just kidding, but it’s only funny and also is it this guys fault?
I don’t even know if it’s true, but in any case, the guy who tasked a react (native) developer on the start menu is responsible (not the developer).
Example: If I managed a product and hired a python developer and told them to do x, they would likely use python, right? (In this scenario, It is I the manager wjo failed everyone, not the developer).
Also the other commenter is correct. It’s like the common saying “use the right tool for the job”. The saying doesn’t make sense, because the right tool is always the one you know how to use…
“I am a react developer”
I thought we are supposed to be language-agnostic after 3rd project.
In the era of tech evangelists? People pick 1 technology branch and make it their entire personality
That’s still a stupid reason. I’m a .NET & MSSQL developer primarily, I’m not gonna shove C# in every project I write if it doesn’t makes sense.
No way that’s real. Tell me it’s not real
Probably, but only because at this point I’m fairly certain reality itself must be a parody of something.
(Apple as a platform is so closed that it couldn’t be influenced by this utter crap and the developers can use the OS native API’s.)
A hidden gem of stupidity and nonsense in the already pretty dumb tirade.
What kind of shit for brains asshole is still defending Windows in 2025?
And what kind of slavering mouth-breathing teoglodyte doesn’t understand that Hannah Montana Linux negates all of these issues, will suck your dixk without hesitation, and lets you read news from four days from now.
Aren’t Qt and GTK cross platform? I have Dolphin and Kate running on my Windows work laptop.
Yeah, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. There is a shitload of frontend developers that specialize in web standards and technologies. Electron was developed to take advantage of that deep pool of frontend developers. The side affect, is that other OSes can just support electron and they get the developers and the applications for free. Which has been a major boon for Linux users and those looking to escape Microsoft’s vendor lockin strategy. Today might be different, but in the past, nobody was intending to support Linux by creating electron apps. If they cared so much or it was so important, they would have been using Qt and GTK prior to Electron.
Wow, that’s some serious misinformation.
that’s a lot of words to basically say “i’m a fucking idiot”.
Every operating system contributed to the bloat. Windows has Win32, OS X has Carbon / Cocoa, Linux has X11 and various widget libs that sit on top of it. So it has been a perennial nut to crack to make cross platform widgets - wxWidgets, QT, SWT/JWT/Swing on Java, XMLShell (Firefox), Electron, GTK/GTK#, winelib etc.
Throw mobile platforms into the mix and it’s an unholy mess. Lowest common denominator is HTML and so the likes of Electron “wins” even though it’s bloated and slow.
i actually don’t have a problem with HTML, i just think that instead of every app shipping their own copy of electron, the operating system should provide basic browser functionality.
that sounds like Tauri!
Linux and Mac use WebkitGTK, Windows uses Edge/Chromium, Android uses Chrome - as bundled in the respective OS, and you essentially have a frontend running on that webview communicating with a backend running locally via some special IPC protocol
the operating system should provide basic browser functionalit
Microsoft got literally sued and almost dissolved as a company for that
And what did we get for it? If you search “chrome install” in Edge it pulls a Janet, all like
To be fair… Chrome is a lateral move on Windows. If I were forced to use Windows I’d probably just use edge if I needed a chromium browser lol
But that’s cause it wasn’t FOSS, but instead a privately owned closed-source app
If an open standard was set, and agreed upon by most, then nobody would sue anyone
Heck, many Linux distros come with a browser preinstalled, but use a FOSS one to not hit that legal problem
Yeah, 1998 was definitely a time where Microsoft wasn’t going to do that. They were (and are) in embrace, extend, extinguish mode
If anything they’ve ramped up on the EEE mode
AzurEEE
Then that operating system gets hit with anti-trust
Not if it’s FOSS
not if it’s a library
sometimes if you have nothing nice to say to that person, just post rocky horror .gifs. i really wish this site would have a .gif finder though. seriously!
Show me how you never programmed anything without telling me
Software should be maintained, not built and forgotten about. Windows encourages the latter, which is just straight up bad practice
Fairly large chunks of Windows code are examples of the latter, in fact.
You dont even have to look at the code to see this. Just make one wrong click in a UI and youre directly getting dragged into a UI that hasn’t changed since Windows XP.
But that’s always a good sign that you’ve dug into the part that actually still works consistently! Once you pop some Windows 2000 era UI you know you’ve struck gold and need to note the path for next time (until Microsoft rearranges their settings for the 5th time this year of course)
Tell me you have no idea how software development works without saying it…
Tbh, it’s not entirely wrong, which is the reason why it works so well as rage bait.
It’s really not about Linux, but it is about supporting anything and everything out there with a single app. Use Electron and you can have the same app running on Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS, your car, your game console, your smart fridge and in a website.
Of course the result sucks, but if you can cut development effort into a fraction while also supporting systems that you would have never supported otherwise, that’s not a bad deal for businesses.
