Good thing the candidate that was on the ballot wasn’t associated with him or his administration in any way and also vigorously denounced genocide at every opportunity! Right? … right??
Right, Harris sucked. So glad I didn’t vote and Trump won instead. That has worked out so much better for Iran and the rest of the world, too. Could you imagine even trying to justify voting in the last election?!?!
the goal post has never moved from “try to leave the world better because of me or worse in spite of me, rather than better in spite of me or worse because of me”
What goalpost? The goal is to make things better than other alternatives. Harris was better than Trump. It was a choice between the two. It’s very simple. How do people not get that?
Yes, despite my sassiness towards you in this thread this is a true and wise observation that goes ignored too often. My disagreements are not pertaining to the idea of inaction constituting action
No worries, I would 100% prefer the proverbial third track, but it isn’t connected yet. In the meantime, I’ll have extreme disdain for the jackasses standing around moralizing while the train is actively running people over.
Political power is gained via votes! Vote! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I mean, yeah, this is why I think my picture turned out pretty good, Because the blue option is the better one in every single junction, but the best outcome cannot be reached by always traversing the blue path. It’s interesting to try to figure out which path in that diagram produces the best overall outcome, and then compare that with what produces the best outcome if we only consider the most immediate results. I’m curious which colors you’d vote for if you were at the first junction in my diagram, knowing that your vote does not guarantee the outcome?
i mean not really, it’s not out of moralism that i choose not to vote for genocidal warmonger red/blue, in fact the moralism is thinking voting for genocidaires is ‘pragmatic’. not to mention continuing to votescold people over a year later lmao
organizing outside electoralism builds actual power. voting for slightly different managers of the same bloodthirsty war machine doesn’t
While organizing outside electoralism is great, electoralism is still the primary way power is apportioned in this country. Abandoning electoralism is ceding power to people who will use it for evil.
if the ‘future of the world’ hinges on genociding an expendible out-group and the system is powerless to change that, then i choose to walk away from omelas
voting against genocide and organizing outside a system which can’t stop empowering genocidal warmongers is actually in line with both my principles and my morals
Voting for neither is the same as voting for both.
if voting for neither is the same voting for both, then can we formally acknowledge that my vote makes zero difference and maybe people can stop votescolding?
No, because voting for one is not the same as voting for neither/both.
Voting for the perfect candidate > voting for A > not voting > voting for B
The perfect candidate didn’t exist, but instead of choosing the second best option, you chose the third best option, and we ended up with the worst option because a lot of people did what you did. Thanks a bunch.
i love how you concede that the system is so dysfunctional you can’t even oppose a genocide under it and simultaneously expect me to to believe that individuals voting (or not) is somehow making a meaningful difference in the outcome
there’s no way anyone could help the fascists more than an ‘opposition’ party which routinely fails to actually oppose them
Yes there is. By actively discouraging opposition to the fascists, which is what you’re doing. You are literally delusional.
if the democrats had any principles and actually opposed fascism they wouldn’t spend so much time punching left
I’m not even saying you’re wrong about the Democrats; I’m saying you’re wrong about motherfucking GAME THEORY and MATH! Even acknowledging what you just wrote, YOU STILL HAVE TO VOTE FOR THEM ANYWAY!
funnything in rick and morty, the very same episode supernova says"what is is-rayel" referring to israel, rick and morty and FAMILY guy are 1 of the 2 shows that poke fun of the ridiculous of hte gaza/palestine conflict.
So, actually that question though? Genocide used to be a really, really bad thing, and here you’re making light of it. I feel like people have lost the plot a bit if they talk about an actual genocide like this. “Yeah, sure they committed a bit of genocide, but have you seen the other guy?” I feel like I’m losing my mind
If you market yourself as being against fascism, maybe don’t vehemently support a different fascist regime and shout down anyone who questions it.
The fact that people like you are spending your energy getting pissy with the voters and not the fucking Democratic party who refused to change their stance is fucking insane.
Thoughts, sure. You’ve chosen to spend your time attacking those who wanted change, not the ones who refused to not back the systemic murder of an entire people.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t realize I’m a different person.
The two thoughts I hold are “on election day, it’s self-gratifying not to vote for the outcome with the highest lows, raising the floor” and “before and after election day, do whatever you can to make the lives of politicians who fail miserable and support better candidates, up to and including civil unrest”
Not voting is categorically ineffective. There may be plenty of things more effective than voting, but not voting isn’t one of them.
People love to present this scenario like it’s a lever with three positions: candidate A, candidate B, or civil unrest. But it’s not. It’s one switch with two buttons (candidate a, candidate b) and another separate button for civil unrest. You can do both
I don’t know what kind of person could look at parents being handed the remains of their child in plastic baggies and at any point in their life go “oh wow are they still going on about the genocide?”
No, it’s the people like you who are going: people should have voted for some genocide to prevent more genocide, instead of saying something sane like: maybe the fucking Democrats shouldn’t have been promoting a fascist in Israel while running on being anti fascist
LIAR! Of fucking course the Democrats shouldn’t have been doing that! Nobody’s disputing that! You are inventing a false dichotomy out of thin fucking air!
Who’s lying? You, right here in this thread, are ragging on the voters. Not the genocide supporting Democrats who refused to stop supporting fascist Netanyahu.
You have decided to spend your energy not attacking the corrupt shitbags, but the people who are stuck STILL asking them to change their stance. What the fuck are you fighting for?
You are cherry-picking only the things I said in this thread to try to crucify me for being on-topic. That’s disingenuous bullshit and you fucking know it.
And besides that…
Not the genocide supporting Democrats who refused to stop supporting fascist Netanyahu.
What part of “of fucking course the Democrats shouldn’t have been doing that” did you not understand? I did, in fact, criticize genocide-supporting Democrats right in the very comment you replied to!
And moreover, EVERY SINGLE OTHER COURSE OF ACTION SUPPORTED FASCIST NETANYAHU EVEN MORE.
You have decided to spend your energy not attacking the corrupt shitbags, but the people who are stuck STILL asking them to change their stance. What the fuck are you fighting for?
I’m fighting for you to quit being delusional accelerationist dipshits who cause more genocide, among countless other catastrophes, through your sheer stupidity!
I ALSO fight for replacing the genocide-supporting Democrats with something better, IN OTHER TIMES AND CONTEXTS WHERE IT’S ACTUALLY APPROPRIATE! And fuck you for telling lies, falsely claiming I don’t!
Do you not care about GENOCIDE???
/s
Genocide Joe!
Making sure the party that continually starts new wars in the Middle East gets elected will surely help my cause!
<Trump and Bibi plan a resort where Palestinians will be removed from their homes and likely largely killed>
“Yeah but you support GENOCIDE!”
You say ‘Genocide Joe!’ like he didn’t actually support and enthusiastically aid a genocide.
Good thing he wasn’t on the ballot then
No his VP was
Took 6 comments to loop right back around to the meme
Good thing the candidate that was on the ballot wasn’t associated with him or his administration in any way and also vigorously denounced genocide at every opportunity! Right? … right??
Right, Harris sucked. So glad I didn’t vote and Trump won instead. That has worked out so much better for Iran and the rest of the world, too. Could you imagine even trying to justify voting in the last election?!?!
Oops, that damn goalpost keeps moving around! Better tie it down!
the goal post has never moved from “try to leave the world better because of me or worse in spite of me, rather than better in spite of me or worse because of me”
It’s okay to admit if you made a mistake, it actually shows human growth when you can recognize that maybe the right course of action wasn’t taken.
What goalpost? The goal is to make things better than other alternatives. Harris was better than Trump. It was a choice between the two. It’s very simple. How do people not get that?
More like supported and slightly reluctantly aided.
I expect there were guardrails that Israel was careful not to cross. You know, like completely flattening Gaza and demolishing southern Lebanon.
It’s still AIPAC fueled genocide, but I definitely preferred the slower version to what we have now.
“If it hadn’t been for Genocide Joe, I’d been married long time 'go…”
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Yes. We must bring genocide to the U.S. and maintain the genocides overseas!
It must be so nice having worldviews that can be fully encapsulated by trolley memes
Well first you gotta gimme an example of one that wouldn’t fit.
I guess the view that I want to articulate could be represented as a trolley meme with the following changes:
If I try to simplify these changes, though, then maybe I could depict my view a bit like this?
But hey, that’s just theory…
GAME THEORY
Ngl I seen trolly memes set up like this before :p
Perhaps I should have said “worldviews that can be encapsulated by single-junction trolley memes”, lol
Either way, you gotta have your hand on the lever!
Yes, despite my sassiness towards you in this thread this is a true and wise observation that goes ignored too often. My disagreements are not pertaining to the idea of inaction constituting action
No worries, I would 100% prefer the proverbial third track, but it isn’t connected yet. In the meantime, I’ll have extreme disdain for the jackasses standing around moralizing while the train is actively running people over.
Political power is gained via votes! Vote! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I mean, yeah, this is why I think my picture turned out pretty good, Because the blue option is the better one in every single junction, but the best outcome cannot be reached by always traversing the blue path. It’s interesting to try to figure out which path in that diagram produces the best overall outcome, and then compare that with what produces the best outcome if we only consider the most immediate results. I’m curious which colors you’d vote for if you were at the first junction in my diagram, knowing that your vote does not guarantee the outcome?
i’m somewhat of a centrist so i think it’s gotta be somewhere between these two:
Those are both encapsulated at the bottom of the meme!
i mean not really, it’s not out of moralism that i choose not to vote for genocidal warmonger red/blue, in fact the moralism is thinking voting for genocidaires is ‘pragmatic’. not to mention continuing to votescold people over a year later lmao
organizing outside electoralism builds actual power. voting for slightly different managers of the same bloodthirsty war machine doesn’t
While organizing outside electoralism is great, electoralism is still the primary way power is apportioned in this country. Abandoning electoralism is ceding power to people who will use it for evil.
The stakes are the future of the world.
if the ‘future of the world’ hinges on genociding an expendible out-group and the system is powerless to change that, then i choose to walk away from omelas
Congratulations on standing by your principles instead of by your morals.
voting against genocide and organizing outside a system which can’t stop empowering genocidal warmongers is actually in line with both my principles and my morals
Voting for neither is the same as voting for both.
if voting for neither is the same voting for both, then can we formally acknowledge that my vote makes zero difference and maybe people can stop votescolding?
No, because voting for one is not the same as voting for neither/both.
Voting for the perfect candidate > voting for A > not voting > voting for B
The perfect candidate didn’t exist, but instead of choosing the second best option, you chose the third best option, and we ended up with the worst option because a lot of people did what you did. Thanks a bunch.
Can you explain this to me like I’m dumb? Cause I am. Is this making fun of the people who choose someone who’s literally not connected to the track?
Needs to be updated to add the Iranian flag to the GOP track. Man, do I wish there were a realistic way to choose that bottom track!
it’s simple, you just don’t vote for the genocidal warmonger party, then if enough people do that you win
blowing up/ derailing the trolly also works
And there’s no viable way to do that under the current system, which is why the track isn’t connected.
i love how you concede that the system is so dysfunctional you can’t even oppose a genocide under it and simultaneously expect me to to believe that individuals voting (or not) is somehow making a meaningful difference in the outcome
THAT’S NOT HOW VOTING WORKS!
People have to vote FOR the OTHER party, or else the genocidal warmonger party wins anyway!
You are saying shit that is both moronic and factually untrue.
you know there’s a non-genocidal warmonger party which could also be voted for.
I voted for them last election and don’t regret it
No there fucking wasn’t! Not one that could win! You’re a goddamned liar and you are helping the fascists!
there’s no way anyone could help the fascists more than an ‘opposition’ party which routinely fails to actually oppose them
if the democrats had any principles and actually opposed fascism they wouldn’t spend so much time punching left
Yes there is. By actively discouraging opposition to the fascists, which is what you’re doing. You are literally delusional.
I’m not even saying you’re wrong about the Democrats; I’m saying you’re wrong about motherfucking GAME THEORY and MATH! Even acknowledging what you just wrote, YOU STILL HAVE TO VOTE FOR THEM ANYWAY!
funnything in rick and morty, the very same episode supernova says"what is is-rayel" referring to israel, rick and morty and FAMILY guy are 1 of the 2 shows that poke fun of the ridiculous of hte gaza/palestine conflict.
So, actually that question though? Genocide used to be a really, really bad thing, and here you’re making light of it. I feel like people have lost the plot a bit if they talk about an actual genocide like this. “Yeah, sure they committed a bit of genocide, but have you seen the other guy?” I feel like I’m losing my mind
Yes, genocide is bad. You know what’s worse? MORE genocide. That’s what we got from people not voting because of it.
If you market yourself as being against fascism, maybe don’t vehemently support a different fascist regime and shout down anyone who questions it.
The fact that people like you are spending your energy getting pissy with the voters and not the fucking Democratic party who refused to change their stance is fucking insane.
surprise: I can hold two thoughts in my head at once
Thoughts, sure. You’ve chosen to spend your time attacking those who wanted change, not the ones who refused to not back the systemic murder of an entire people.
Priorities.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t realize I’m a different person.
The two thoughts I hold are “on election day, it’s self-gratifying not to vote for the outcome with the highest lows, raising the floor” and “before and after election day, do whatever you can to make the lives of politicians who fail miserable and support better candidates, up to and including civil unrest”
Not voting is categorically ineffective. There may be plenty of things more effective than voting, but not voting isn’t one of them.
People love to present this scenario like it’s a lever with three positions: candidate A, candidate B, or civil unrest. But it’s not. It’s one switch with two buttons (candidate a, candidate b) and another separate button for civil unrest. You can do both
We have had years of constant video footage of it happening. Being desensitized is bound to happen.
I don’t know what kind of person could look at parents being handed the remains of their child in plastic baggies and at any point in their life go “oh wow are they still going on about the genocide?”
That isn’t what they were saying tho.
No, no one is saying those words exactly. But I see the sentiment be expressed in threads like this over and over, and it just doesn’t compute.
The only ones making light of genocide are the ones who helped make more of it happen through their refusal to vote for harm reduction.
No, it’s the people like you who are going: people should have voted for some genocide to prevent more genocide, instead of saying something sane like: maybe the fucking Democrats shouldn’t have been promoting a fascist in Israel while running on being anti fascist
LIAR! Of fucking course the Democrats shouldn’t have been doing that! Nobody’s disputing that! You are inventing a false dichotomy out of thin fucking air!
Who’s lying? You, right here in this thread, are ragging on the voters. Not the genocide supporting Democrats who refused to stop supporting fascist Netanyahu.
You have decided to spend your energy not attacking the corrupt shitbags, but the people who are stuck STILL asking them to change their stance. What the fuck are you fighting for?
You are cherry-picking only the things I said in this thread to try to crucify me for being on-topic. That’s disingenuous bullshit and you fucking know it.
And besides that…
What part of “of fucking course the Democrats shouldn’t have been doing that” did you not understand? I did, in fact, criticize genocide-supporting Democrats right in the very comment you replied to!
And moreover, EVERY SINGLE OTHER COURSE OF ACTION SUPPORTED FASCIST NETANYAHU EVEN MORE.
I’m fighting for you to quit being delusional accelerationist dipshits who cause more genocide, among countless other catastrophes, through your sheer stupidity!
I ALSO fight for replacing the genocide-supporting Democrats with something better, IN OTHER TIMES AND CONTEXTS WHERE IT’S ACTUALLY APPROPRIATE! And fuck you for telling lies, falsely claiming I don’t!
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