ETA: Okay, I’ve recently found out that this quote is not Vonnegut, although he did write something similar to this in a letter to schoolchildren. That letter was posted to three–ring’s blog with her commentary posted below. Her commentary was copy-pasted to Facebook as being written by Vonnegut, and it’s been passed around that way ever since. Proof here.
I’m fixing this post with proper attribution. I did do a quick web search before posting this, but apparently it was too quick. Bleagh.
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Bros out here doing archeology at 15 and thinks he’s a loser. Ah, to be a teenager again… Would suck! I just wanna replay my late 30s for NG+
This is a nice anecdote, and it’s meaningful and valuable in its own right, but it’s not Vonnegut.
The source seems to be this 2020 Tumblr post, where the OP text is someone’s own anecdote following a Kurt Vonnegut extract. I guess someone’s read the post and got confused as to where his bit ends.
Oh thank god, I thought for a moment that Kurt Vonnegut wrote like a Tumblr user.
The actual excerpt does read much more like Vonnegut.
Funnily enough, even though the quote is misattributed, the sentiment is basically the same as what Vonnegut was saying, albeit less eloquent.
Thanks for catching this! I fixed it. What’s remarkable is that apparently a lot of people don’t want to believe that this isn’t Vonnegut, which is why it slipped past me when I did a web search on it earlier.
I’ve tried contacting multiple places that have published this quote to have them retract it with no results. I’ve also contacted Snopes twice with no reply.
I was once contacted by someone who wanted to know my source for the quote because they were tracking Vonnegut’s archeology experience in his biography and wouldn’t believe me when I said it was about my own life.
Well, the person who posted this has a hobby, mainly posting quotes by famous people, who are not famous at all, so as a circular argument the quote works quite well 🤪
I had a somewhat similar revelation. Remember those “demotivational” posters making fun of the motivational posters that were all over schools? (At least in the U.S.) There was one that really stuck with me when I saw it:
“Mediocrity - if you can’t learn to so something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly”
It was kinda life changing.
That moment when your brain goes “This…but unironically”.
where does that come from though?
everyone in American movies and TV is a savant or aspiring to be one; they’re not just a hacker or a tailor–they’re the best at what they do!!! they have skills unseen even by the oldest gods. they can create a perfect dress in 20 minutes flat that’ll wow the most critical Vogue editorialists; They can hack into the most secure system in a matter of minutes!
OR you only do things if you can make money at them.
I got a degree in Music History, and had been in the music business for many years, but I could never enjoy playing music myself, because I wasn’t able to play at a high enough level.
During Covid, I was so bored that I picked up the guitar again, and I was finally able to start enjoying it, because I had no expectations of making money at it. It was purely a time killer, that eventually became a joy. It also gave me a distraction from eating, and I’ve lost over 100 pounds.
Music had become a career path to me, and I had to learn to just love it again.
You lost over 100 lbs!? As long as you’re not unhealthily underweight, that’s absolutely incredible!
Thanks, still got about 30-50 to go. It’s getting tougher.
Linus Torvalds said something similar in an interview, don’t think it was that long ago.
He took up building guitar pedals as a hobby. He doesn’t even play guitar. But it was something different from coding. He wanted to understand analog circuits better, and so that’s the vehicle he chose.
But what he said about it was the best part – it’s important to have a hobby where it’s okay to suck. Failure has to be an option.
If sucking at it means that bad things will happen, then it is no longer a hobby.
i used to feel this way about a lot of stuff. most of it comes from my parents constantly moving the bar for acceptable achievement. everything i did, like literally everything, there was a minimum of performance they expected and if i was able to exceed it that became the new bar. you can only do that to a kid so many times before they learn trying isnt worth the effort. i only ever tried at things i really liked and wanted to try to be the best at, but i would beat the shit out of myself for not being the best and would only ever feel relief at my achievements.
somewhat recently i started getting more into climbing, and the approach ive taken is that im not really trying to get better. if i have fun and get tired i consider that a good session, and a great session is one where i socialize with someone. its been so much more fun approaching it this way than any other way ive done sports. some days i deliberately half ass it, giving up when things get just a little too hard or just going home if im not feeling it. the best part is despite not giving it my all im getting a lot better because im showing up consistently and just enjoying the puzzle of a new route. i wish my parents had cultivated this approach in me as a kid. i would have had such a healthier relationship with sports and probably would have ended up doing better than i did and not quit quite as early.
Ugghh same. Expected to do well in school so why would they praise me for doing well? Expected to so well at extra curriculars so why praise? I stopped doing much.
I started a garden last year. I kept going this year. They suck ass and aren’t optimized or doing well. I still have tomatoes. I’ll still plant a garden next year.
Personally, I think the concept of “talent” comes from people who think they were created by a magical man for a specific purpose. What I think talent is, is just practice, perseverance and passion. I’ll use guitar for example. Everyone fucking sucks in the beginning. There’s this very difficult barrier at the start that you can only get through by forcing your way through, before it starts becoming ‘fun’. And a lot of people don’t make it past this beginning phase and think they’re just too untalented, when what they’re actually lacking is the perseverance and the passion to want it hard enough.
Sure, some people have longer fingers (which also isn’t ‘talent’) but you don’t have to play on a wide neck classical guitar, there’s plenty of guitar shapes and sizes that are more suitable.
I think talent, AKA aptitude, exists. And I think a lot of it is social factors. Your willingness to spend hours on a new skill is going to depend on things like your free time and self-efficacy and access to mentors, which all correlate with wealth and privilege. You might be born trans, and thus abused by your parents, and thus suffer from depression, and thus have little motivation to practice guitar. Or you might be like Michael Phelps. Who has a giant armspan, weird joints, a different way of processing lactic acid, and the kind of ADHD where he spends hours swimming without noticing the passage of time. And also had access to water and teachers at a young age. All of that, I think, is talent.
And then there are people who grow up in poverty, experiencing hate, not having many opportunities in life. But they have one or two opportunities to learn an art, and they pour all of their emotions and beliefs about the world into it, and it’s more meaningful to them than it could be to anyone who’s had an easy life. And that’s talent too.
And both of those can change the world.
I agree for the most part but I will point out that some trans people weren’t abused by their parents
Yeah, absolutely correct, I’m only describing a single hypothetical person.
What I think talent is, is just practice, perseverance and passion.
I like to make the joke that I don’t actually have talent, I just pretend I do by putting in effort instead.
But there’s so many examples out there of people that don’t try very hard and are still very good at stuff while others work twice as hard and can’t surpass them. What do you call that if not talent?
I think that almost anybody can become proficient, but talent is something innate. We aren’t just blank slates. We are naturally better at some things than others. There have been numerous examples of prodigies who showed amazing skill at a very young age, despite having relatively little practice. For example, Mozart was taught how to play piano from the age of four and was able to compose pieces at the age of five. Many parents have tried to get their small children to play musical instruments from a very young age, but most of them have not been able to produce new Mozarts. Of course, Mozart and other prodigies practiced a lot, too, but others who practiced just as much, if not more, got nowhere close to their skill level.
Now, the reason I said almost anybody is because it makes sense to me that if there are people who are talented, then there must be the opposite, people who have anti-talent. There are people who are so tone-deaf that they’ll never make good music, not even if they practice every chance they get. However, talent and anti-talent are at the ends of the bell curve: most people are somewhere in the middle, and if they practice enough, they can make something which is adequate, if not good…and, occasionally, even something great.
I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said. If you can teach someone art, which you can, then you can teach someone to “have talent.” There are people who refuse to learn because they don’t like it, or don’t want to, but you can be taught just about anything.
Take Mozart from your example, he was taught to play by someone who didn’t hold him back or try to stop him, that is a gift right there. What if everyone’s “talent” is just being free with what you enjoy and no one is stopping you in one way or another.
Let’s not even go into who decides when you have talent or not, because it’s trendy and there are taste makers.
I have two questions for you.
Do you believe that everybody is a blank slate without variation?
Mozart learned to play at 4, began composing at 5, and wrote his first symphony at 8. Do you think that every child is capable of this?
Do you believe that everybody is a blank slate without variation?
No, but being the best and being “talented” are 2 different things.
Mozart learned to play at 4, began composing at 5, and wrote his first symphony at 8. Do you think that every child is capable of this?
No, not every single child, but I bet there are lot more than we realize. He was nurtured as well, obviously. I made up melodies in my head as a child, but I didn’t have access to a great teacher and a piano.
Which brings up something else, how many children are brought up with musical instruments around them that are serious instruments and not playschool quality? How many children that want to explore music aren’t allowed to? If I had a child surrounded by accordions and that’s what they learned to play on and compose music, don’t you think the response would be different than mozart’s piano?
I’m not saying I’m right 100% of the time, there are going to be mechanical issues with people’s bodies. I’m saying that most people can get really talented (not the best ever) if nurtured and allowed.
Note: I apologize if my tone sounds antagonistic, I truly mean this as a discussion.
I play basketball. I win by tricking my body into doing exercise.
It’s a great quote, and I really resonate with it.
This is something I’ve wrestled with my whole life. My parents had high expectations for me, and I mostly met them. But it’s left me unable to enjoy many of my hobbies because I’m just not good at them. It’s not great.
I… I really needed this tonight, ngl…
The next time I play DOTA I’ll quote this as soon as I lose the round for the whole team. It’ll probably make them stop and think.
After all why wouldn’t I try to reason with my team of buffoons in a MOBA
Shout out to archaeologists. Haven’t met one I don’t like my 5 years in the field. I’ve met some that I didn’t like to work for, but outside of work, socially solid people.
Of course I’m sure there are some, just haven’t met them yet
I think some jobs make it impossible to not zoom out.
And he kept trying out different hobbies without achieving anything significant in any of them. Right?
Maybe he was neurodivergent enough to become great at each and then lose interest, never engaging in them again despite investing thousands of hours?
TIL I’m not neurodivergent enough :(
My interests will last a variable amount of time, and I’ll get good enough at something, that people who can’t do it at all are a bit impressed, but I suspect the actual skilled people would be like, Awww isn’t it cute how she’s trying. I’ll get to an intermediate level, then hit my XP cap and just never get any better.
I’m a Jack of all trades and master of none.
(Which is oftentimes better than a master of one, as the rest of the saying goes, but I’m not sure in my case.)
Kind of like me, but I also have a friend who matches my description above
Eyyy, fair to middling club!
I’m not sure I understand you. Are you saying that Kurt Vonnegut became a famous writer because he didn’t follow his own advice?
