I don’t get it.
Weren’t schools telling children to “comply”, just a few weeks ago?I still remember having marks deducted in junior school for answering that the light does not turn on instantly after switching the button on.
A lot of adults have yet to learn this…
They should ban that shit until you graduate college.the kids who are nerds will always figure out a way. The rest who are not into computers and such definitely should stay the fuck away. If you’re not careful you’ll become a zombie that works to pay for access to his brains as a rental subscription.
That’s just so messed up. It should not just be banned but down right illegal to sell an AI subscription if the data used was stolen from the public in the first place.
Yeah, if running AI took a fancy graphics card and some basic scripting knowledge, a lot of the short cutters would get filtered out right away. I’d rather write a four page paper than struggle to get a strange piece of software working on a deadline and I’m a tech-adjacent Linux enthusiast. The commercialization of AI is the problem: the fact that they’re preying on people’s desire to stand out, to be exceptional, to get positive social feedback, to succeed in the hierarchy, to make their over-packed lives easier, etc. Open-source Academic AI would have had a some of the same issues, like being coopted by governments, but in general I think things would be magnitudes less terrible.
I appreciate your last point about stolen data. I appreciated it from a marketing/intelligence/propaganda point-of-view, and you from the ownership/intellectual property point of view, but we ended up in really similar places.
Lol at the zombie thing too.
The health of the nation requires a citizenry capable of critical thinking to draw upon to manage and direct the fate of the nation. Now, obviously, the wealthy don’t want anyone but themselves to be capable of such a thing. So here we are.
One generation from “don’t trust wikipedia” to “just ask chatGPT.”
Then teach them media literacy and critical thinking skills.
If you read the article, thats part of it as well
No, it’s not.
I remember having study hall twice a week in high school and wondering why I didn’t just have a block of time like that every day to complete my assignments. It seems that having something like this with faculty supervising may be the only way to ensure AI isn’t being used.
Or assignments where you need to give a presentation (where you can use bullet points but need you put it in your own words on the fly) followed by Q&A. Could help with the crippling social anxiety that seems to be getting more common, too, if it was regular enough.
The fact that this phrase is revolutionary and newsworthy makes this world so dystopian that it’s hard to believe.
It’s a start.
Indeed. Teal’c impression… Stargate TV show for those unsure, watch it if you enjoy sci fi and scenery from BC, not the best scenery for bc of course you gotta visit or watch Psych for that stuff, though different genre but you get few comedy detective 40min episode series in general, plus who doesn’t love Shawn and Gus? For those that watched it.
From what I can tell, students need to learn online searches are tools, but you have to still understand why they give the correct answer. Or not (give the correct one), I’ve googled same issue but worded just slightly differently and got the opposite answer (usually after seeing the first response was incorrect, then I reword and gives me the opposite)
Mean I learned how to use searches, be specific only include relevant words…been doing it for decades now. Nope one slight change in my search gives the opposite ai answer. Fuck that technology is limited, opposite answers other day with similar but not exactly same query. If anything it’s making people stupid. Kids need to learn critical thinking, why I know answers are incorrect when I see it, can bring in knowledge to determine if it fits other facts.
If only all places made sure to not let kids using it until they got proper skills to parse their results in a mindful and logical way.
Otherwise you get people believing the first result, and for anyone say over 35(ish) early Internet you had to try many times and go to past the first page of results to find shat you were looking for.
Let’s also ban it for teachers who create educational materials. My kids receive and work with such materials and it’s wrong so often and deeply, the teachers can’t even explain how to solve problems.
South Park satirized the whole AI thing pretty well. I recommend those episodes. I remember all the stories about teachers using AI to grade papers. It reminds me of a teacher I had who claimed to grade papers by throwing them down the stairs and grading based on how far they went!
As a teacher, I can’t agree enough. I’m really tired of being handed slop from my coworkers, and then having to weigh the social implications of explaining to them how I know it is slop and why this particular case of slop is bad. The amount of energy I have to spend deconstructing their use of AI, and then translating and validating that deconstruction to them, doesn’t match the effortlessness with which they pump out more slop and leave me frustrated that I have to do this every time.
Just ban it from use in elementary and secondary schools, please.
Maybe let’s pay them enough
I’m an adult taking night classes at my local community college. I have two instructors (neither is technically a professor). One is my age, and she begs us not to use AI, as some of my classmates openly talk about using it. My other instructor is in her 60s and all of her assignments have little notes under the header that say “this worksheet was generated by copilot”. It’s baffling. My feedback at the end of the semester is always “this class was great, but I wish the assignments didn’t use AI”.
Yeah, I’m paying tuition for a human teacher. I’m not paying anything for an AI-generated tutor. If the producer doesn’t value the work, I don’t see why I should.
I didn’t mean to misrepresent the situation. She inputs all the material herself but uses copilot to format the worksheet, including the addition of emojis and clip art, and AI generated images all over the online class forum. She’s very involved with the students’ work and is a fountain of knowledge during classes, which makes her completely unnecessary use of AI so terribly confusing.
Go on ratemyprofessor and give her a low score. That actually does influence professors imo.
Teacher here, it doesn’t. There is a strong bias on this kind of site towards negative reviews so we tend to ignore it as a. it doesn’t represent reality and b. we want to keep our mental health.
It’s been like half a decade (fuck, old) since I was in college but I never felt it had a particularly negative slant. Most good professors had very good ratings, the one actually-bad professor I took had a pretty bad rating (but she was the only one available for that class).
I always used it when signing up for classes, so even if it doesn’t influence individual educators, it’ll tell you who to avoid. Especially for valid critiques like “fills her lessons with AI slop”.
Yeah, because teacher have unlimited resources.
Pay them better?
That would be better news imo
Wish it were this:
Did you use generative AI to edit this image? lol jk
The number of new nurses / doctors who auto-piloted their way through school is fucking staggering.
There’re no checks, they just take ChatGPT’s vomit at face value.
Then they start working, and they’re just bad.
AI needs to be banned from education, period. Think with your own brain.
Aren’t exams in person? I know board certification exams are written and in person in front of, believe it or not, a board. I just can’t imagine cheating your way through knowing that, at the end of the tunnel, it’s going to be just you.
Maybe I’m just old though.
The issue is the people who do just good enough on the exams to squeak by with the minimum. Exams also don’t do a great job of testing critical thinking, which is what AI use really destroys.
It’s like the old “book smart but no common sense” situation, but in this case even the book smart side is taking a hit because students will just study AI excrement without verifying that it’s accurate. And the common sense side isn’t just undeveloped, it’s actively attacked.
AI is making people stupid.
Yes they are. LLMs are also new enough that we’ve had perhaps one or two graduating classes that would have had access to it the entire time.
I think at this point society needs to unite, and push the genie back into its bottle by any means possible.
That’s going to require the working class seizing power. I think we’re working on that.
In a social capacity, that’s already happening. Look how many online communities ban AI slop and how many irl communities push back hard against new data centers.
Even the economic side of things is starting to question the AI narrative, but I think they’re playing along as we’ll have to acknowledge we’re in a huge recession when AI is exposed as vaporware.
I’ve asked this else where. Don’t get me wrong here, I agree with this and think it’s great. But how are they going to police this? Yes there are the ai bots to check for ai usage. But that only goes so far.
This conversation is not actually a new topic; this is simply the latest edition of “How do we get students to stop cheating?” AI is the latest technique of cheating available to students, but we have actually known the answer for quite a long time. The way you get students to stop cheating is to get them to value their education.
People generally use AI in areas they are ignorant in or to do scut work. Personally, I really enjoy playing the video game Monster Hunter, in which creating armor sets can be very complicated. I once asked ChatGPT to make an armor set and it gave me a pile of garbage. I was only able to recognize it as garbage because of my deep understanding of the game. I have attached great value to learning the deeper mechanics of this hobby and so, I have no desire to offload that labor to a chatbot.
In the USA, education is assigned very little value. School is mostly seen as a way to get a job, not as a way to acquire more knowledge to better yourself. You need to do well in school so you can go to a good college so you can get a well paying job. You should study computer science because it pays a lot. You should become a doctor because it pays a lot. The entirety of education is a means to an end, something you gotta get out of the way to live your life. Education is seen as scut work.
A typical high school student takes an AP exam not because they want to prove they have a higher level mastery of a subject, but because a good score is worth college credits. A college student chooses their major thinking about job opportunities a degree will provide them. We tell children not to study what they love because that is how you become a starving artist.
Our society does not value education. Children are responding appropriately by relegating it to scut work. It’s not that the children of today are uniquely incapable, they are simply the distillation of decades of education devaluation. Ask a football student to do math and they might be hesitant, but ask them to analyze their favorite team’s average field goal success rates and they’ll pull out detailed spreadsheets of percentages at different yard lengths.
If we want students to stop cheating, we have to give them a reason to value their education. While I support a ban on AI usage in the classroom, this is ultimately treating a symptom without addressing the source.
I mean… “Sit in this room with a pen and a piece of paper until your thoughts are on that paper. If we see you pull out your cell phone, we’re taking it away.” is pretty effective.
I don’t know why kids are allowed to have cell phones anywhere near them when they’re at school.
They should be in a locker by the time school starts, and not seen again until they’re done for the day.
This.
Honestly, a big step is blocking/not enabling it on school computers.
Like, a lot of schools with one-to-one Chromebooks have Gemini or whatever just completely bundled and integrated.
On an individual level, people mostly just follow the rules on their own. The spectre of some large and unknowable punishment is usually enough to enforce something like this. If 25% of people break the rule because they aren’t afraid… You don’t have to find all of them and punish them. You can just find a couple and punish them harshly, occasionally, decreasing the number of people who aren’t afraid of rhe consequences.
Aside from that, this is implicitly a statement that school admins and teachers aren’t allowed to push LLM usage on students. That’s FAR more enforceable.
At the very least, activities within the schools will not be participating in shitting all over the children’s brains. That still means something.
Likely shifting curriculums away from homework towards more in-class assignments. Which should have been done decades ago, homework was invented as a punishment.
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You can go read on r/teachers (https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/Teachers) just how bad this shit is getting--both phone use, and AI use for assignments.
We seriously need to completely ban both phones and AI use in grade school. Back to pencil and paper, and “show your work”. The kids coming out of high school now can barely read, beyond texting. It’s frightening.
If you give a fuck about your kids, you’ll make sure they can read and write, because the schools don’t give a fuck about your kids.
Teachers give a fuck. Unfortunately we refuse to adequately fund schools and don’t give teachers the latitude to teach.
They sneaking in those dummy phones too?
One thing to promote literacy might be calm down about the sex, drugs and violence in books. I didn’t have a single interesting assigned reading until Red Dragon in highschool.
A Time to Kill, great. Wish I read that instead of to kill a mockingbird.
Bad take, Mockingbird is great. Compelling and depressingly relevant to this day.
It’s a good book, yes, but I was not interested in it and I had the executive function of a teenage boy.
If we catered education to only the things that appeal to the most distracted teenage boys it would just be tits and explosions.
Actually I’d like to argue the reflective point: why is there not an expectation that coursework should be interesting and compelling for students?
why is there not an expectation that coursework should be interesting and compelling for students?
As you said, you had the executive function of a teenage boy. The works still get taught because they are interesting and relevant. but it’s hard to see that as a kid, as you’re developing vocabulary and literacy and also lacking life experiences to relate.
Schools try to compromise by giving a list of choices and letting students choose from those on what is most interesting. But curriculums only flex so much.
they are interesting and relevant. but it’s hard to see that as a kid
Yeah so there’s this projection of, this is good and valuable to you, regardless what your circumstances and abilities are.
If it gets them writing essays and participating who cares?
Because analyzing themes and connecting it to history and sociology are important media literacy skills that high schoolers should be learning.
A Time to Kill won’t fulfill that?
The parents, apparently.
Schools are warehouses to hold children while parents are at work.
Public schools are. For high school, I went to a free online charter school. I received a substantially better education than my friends in the magnet public high school.
I get there are other problems with the whole ‘school choice’ debate, but my family was broke and I was still able to get a better education. That’s a plus imo and I’d recommend it to anyone.
If we forced rich people to send their children to public schools, public schools would get a lot better. By allowing them to have a choice, they choose to defund the public school.
If we forced rich people to send their children to public schools, they would all move to public school districts in areas with housing too expensive for poor families to afford. That’s not a hypothetical, that’s just current reality.
The problem is rich people, not what options they do or do not have.
That’s solvable with bussing, unless rich people all want to live out in the middle of nowhere in compounds or something.
The problem is rich people, which is why we should take away their options. They currently have the option to make rich-only school districts and we could take that away from them too. Point is, we have to force them to use the same school as everyone else.
Agree.
It’s an illusion either way. Public schools are funded by property taxes. property taxes are based on the home’s worth. So you see how this snowballs.
Property taxes keep getting cut and capped by people who don’t use public schools, because they don’t see the personal benefit to it.
This would have an effect.
Although pooling property taxes across entire states makes more sense than the weird school district thing we have going on.
I went to one of the worst schools in my state. The education was fine, schools are judged by their student body, not the teachers.
Graduated undergrad with a 4.0 in my engineering field, then got a doctorate from one of the most prestigious programs in the world. Now I’m a depressed techie waiting to FIRE, but I wouldn’t blame my public high school for that.
“FIRE”?
“No child left behind” turned into “more children left behind.”
They weren’t left behind; they were trampled by the machine pushing them forward.
And, in retrospect, the reality of “No Child Left Behind” fits the MO of US governance: they are catering to the optics of “a child being held back in grade” and not to the actual issues that are preventing the child from learning.
Totally freeking agree. My family are all teachers and wow. The protocol for cellphones is you put them away at your cubby.
But now they’re bringing their real phones AND a dummy one to put in the pouches instead.
nd yes. AI destroying critical thinking skills. This generation is fucked. iPad parents as well.
Shortening attention spans with those “shorts” on YouTube and other places.
…just put signal jammers in each class in easy to reach spot for a teacher, sheesh. AI requires net, FB and Insta too. Nowadays kids don’t do offline so that should solve the problem.
because the schools don’t give a fuck about your kids.
News flash: it’s not just the schools, unfortunately.
