This is a super hot take so bare with me, but the conditions of a lot of vegan food production are also often harmful to the humans that grow the food (I’m talking blood produce) and the growth in popularity of certain superfoods have severely damaged the ecosystems that indigenous populations in the areas where they’re from depended on.
This is not to say being vegan is bad. It’s obviously proven to be better for the environment, and the way that animals are treated is absolutely inhumane.
This is to say however that we should be demanding sustainability in all our food consumption and respect for all living beings. But mostly, it’s to say fuck capitalism.
By vegan food production you must mean processed fake meat? Not all vegans eat a horrible diet.
If you mean vegan food production as in normal non-meat foods such as vegetables than that’s a while opinion. Unless you are Jain or just want to die, we got to eat something.
Most food production in general kills a lot more than I would like especially vegetable and fruit production. Not much to do on the regard though.
Yes I did mean veg and fruit, but I mean that obviously we need to eat but we need to do it in a sustainable and fair way.
Currently a lot of the produce in Canada & the US is grown by migrant labour where people are treated horribly. In Mexico, many of the agricultural production sites are owned by cartels. Quinoa used to be a primary food source for quechuan (peruvian indigenous) people but when it grew in popularity in the west, it became too expensive for those who depended on it. There are many more examples.
What there is to do about it is to demand better agricultural practices and support fair-trade, co-ops, and sustainable food vendors. In the same way we should be / are demanding cruelty-free and sustainable animal products.
Unless you are Jain or just want to die, we got to eat something.
That’s the thing though, why should plants be more eligible for eating than animals? Both are living. Animals are closer to us, so we can understand them better, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t being just as harmful to plants.
I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with eating another animal for sustenance. Just the same as there isn’t anything wrong with eating a plant for sustenance. What matters is what we do before we eat them.
Are you stupid? Genuine question, because animals need to eat as well for you to pay someone to murder them. Even going from the assumption that plants suffer too, a plant based diet still causes much fewer plants to die compared to feeding the plants inefficiently to animals to then eat the animals.
As we can. We understand how animals think, because evolutionarily they’re closer to us. We don’t really understand how plants “think” or “feel”, we just decide that because they don’t have what we have that makes it okay.
we should be demanding sustainability in all our food consumption and respect for all living beings
Hear hear.
Plants are living beings, also. The fact is, unless you photosynthesise, you likely have to consume another living being to survive.
What nearly everyone can agree on is that industrial farming practices are harmful. Not just to the living things we farm, but also to the consumers, who end up consuming a lesser product that is often contaminated by industrial processes that cut corners to save on cost.
Nah, there are definitely some vegetarian and vegan foods (especially when we’re talking ultraprocessed foods) that are worse for the environment and worse for your health than just plain meat or cheese.
Genuinely which ones? Everything I can think of is better than meat. Largely because the cows eat a lot of food in the first place with most of it being wasted.
It’s been a good long while since I made my comparisons but i believe Quorn was worse than chicken (but not as bad as beef obviously). In Sweden we also have Anamma which used to be very good, but at some point they removed their classic formulations and suddenly added like 30% sugar to everything (and doubled the price for good measure). Not sure if they’ve walked that back by now, hopefully they have.
In the UK there’s a sweet maker called Candy Kittens. They make, like, vegan Haribo (only better) that tastes really really nice.
They’ve started making their own vegan peanut M&M’s. Instead of chocolate they use a shit ton of palm oil.
It’s “ethically sourced” palm oil, but that’s still a sour thought after you’ve devoured a whole bag of tasty sweet treats in one sitting. It’s still increasing the market capacity for palm oil, which in turn increases demand to destroy habitats eg orangutans in Indonesia and other SE Asian islands.
This is a super hot take so bare with me, but the conditions of a lot of vegan food production are also often harmful to the humans that grow the food (I’m talking blood produce) and the growth in popularity of certain superfoods have severely damaged the ecosystems that indigenous populations in the areas where they’re from depended on.
This is not to say being vegan is bad. It’s obviously proven to be better for the environment, and the way that animals are treated is absolutely inhumane.
This is to say however that we should be demanding sustainability in all our food consumption and respect for all living beings. But mostly, it’s to say fuck capitalism.
By vegan food production you must mean processed fake meat? Not all vegans eat a horrible diet.
If you mean vegan food production as in normal non-meat foods such as vegetables than that’s a while opinion. Unless you are Jain or just want to die, we got to eat something.
Most food production in general kills a lot more than I would like especially vegetable and fruit production. Not much to do on the regard though.
Yes I did mean veg and fruit, but I mean that obviously we need to eat but we need to do it in a sustainable and fair way.
Currently a lot of the produce in Canada & the US is grown by migrant labour where people are treated horribly. In Mexico, many of the agricultural production sites are owned by cartels. Quinoa used to be a primary food source for quechuan (peruvian indigenous) people but when it grew in popularity in the west, it became too expensive for those who depended on it. There are many more examples.
What there is to do about it is to demand better agricultural practices and support fair-trade, co-ops, and sustainable food vendors. In the same way we should be / are demanding cruelty-free and sustainable animal products.
Fully agree. Good point on labor too, I was considering insects and rodents.
That’s the thing though, why should plants be more eligible for eating than animals? Both are living. Animals are closer to us, so we can understand them better, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t being just as harmful to plants.
I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with eating another animal for sustenance. Just the same as there isn’t anything wrong with eating a plant for sustenance. What matters is what we do before we eat them.
Are you stupid? Genuine question, because animals need to eat as well for you to pay someone to murder them. Even going from the assumption that plants suffer too, a plant based diet still causes much fewer plants to die compared to feeding the plants inefficiently to animals to then eat the animals.
Plants cannot think or feel as animals can. Arguing a tomato has the emotions and thought of a dog or pig is just silly.
Killing a pig versus a tomato is not the same thing dawg
As we can. We understand how animals think, because evolutionarily they’re closer to us. We don’t really understand how plants “think” or “feel”, we just decide that because they don’t have what we have that makes it okay.
Just making up whatever you want aren’t you?
“I’m not a plant therefore idk what their nonthinking minds are thinking”
Who is we in your statement? Pretty sure modern botany understands how plants work and interact.
I’m doing more good as an antinatalist than any vegan
They hated him, for he spoke the truth.
Hear hear.
Plants are living beings, also. The fact is, unless you photosynthesise, you likely have to consume another living being to survive.
What nearly everyone can agree on is that industrial farming practices are harmful. Not just to the living things we farm, but also to the consumers, who end up consuming a lesser product that is often contaminated by industrial processes that cut corners to save on cost.
Nah, there are definitely some vegetarian and vegan foods (especially when we’re talking ultraprocessed foods) that are worse for the environment and worse for your health than just plain meat or cheese.
Genuinely which ones? Everything I can think of is better than meat. Largely because the cows eat a lot of food in the first place with most of it being wasted.
It’s been a good long while since I made my comparisons but i believe Quorn was worse than chicken (but not as bad as beef obviously). In Sweden we also have Anamma which used to be very good, but at some point they removed their classic formulations and suddenly added like 30% sugar to everything (and doubled the price for good measure). Not sure if they’ve walked that back by now, hopefully they have.
Oh you are talking about fake meat stuff, I was thinking of normal ingredients.
In the UK there’s a sweet maker called Candy Kittens. They make, like, vegan Haribo (only better) that tastes really really nice.
They’ve started making their own vegan peanut M&M’s. Instead of chocolate they use a shit ton of palm oil.
It’s “ethically sourced” palm oil, but that’s still a sour thought after you’ve devoured a whole bag of tasty sweet treats in one sitting. It’s still increasing the market capacity for palm oil, which in turn increases demand to destroy habitats eg orangutans in Indonesia and other SE Asian islands.
TL;DR palm oil is vegan.
Wait isn’t chocolate vegan though? Why substitute chocolate with palm oil?
Surely they meant the sugar in the chocolate, not the cocoa. But they could have been specific.