You wildly overestimate the capabilities of the “average” person. I don’t even want to sound facetious or smug when I say that. Not even including the willful ignoring of the obvious thanks to ideology, politics, or other internally constructed mental barriers that deliberately exclude inconvenient informtion.
You’re overestimating some of us oldsters here. I work with people who are mostly in their 60s and 70s, and they can almost in the same sentence claim that 1) summers are hotter and winters are warmer than they used to be, and that 2) climate change is a hoax.
I recently had a talk with someone who first brushed all the political shenanigans off with “climate has always changed; that’s totally normal” and then three thoughts further tells me it’s happening faster than we could adjust to. So what now … is it natural or is it faster than normal? Because I don’t have an issue with the temperature rising a few degree over 10000 years. I do have an issue with them rising over 100 years.
I guess in that person’s defence you could hold a consistent position whilst staying both those things. They don’t appear to deny that the climate is changing and does change, they just dispute whether it’s normal for it to do that and they don’t seem describe the frequency or period of that “natural” change so they could be describing something they’ve seen happen over and over in their lifetime hence why they think it’s normal or describing something they’ve merely aware happens and this believe to be normal. They then state that it’s happening faster than we can adjust to, which depending on the rest of the conversation isn’t necessarily contradictory because, that the climate would change of its own accord for non-anthropogenic reasons can be taken as true at the same time that it might be doing so at a different pace for unknown reasons. It can be faster than normal whilst still being normal that it is doing so at all so to speak.
Although really, if they openly accept both those premises as true then it really doesn’t matter because the fact is, as they observe, the climate is changing rapidly and it’s problematic. Unless they have some better solution in mind maybe we should try and act on the levers we have actual control over.
Any average person who has been alive for 30 years or more
If they’re the type to make observations and listen, their pattern centers are freaking out. However, many are on a 9-to-5/wage slave, nose grinding life so they’re coping only when it arises, neglecting future patterns. But if they listened to experts, they could be chill.
Every year when I point out to my parents that it’s unseasonably warm, they always try to rationalize it in some way, like “oh it was always like this.” Like oh my god no it wasn’t. You’re not that senile yet. But their programming is rooted so deep that they can’t see the tangible reality in front of them.
I feel like this is the case for many conservatives.
Where did you get that statistic? If anything it’s the 30- group who actually believe in climate science. My parents are 60 and don’t believe the climate is warming, despite new rules rolling out in my lifetime about extreme heat advisories. My high school started having ‘heat’ days where we had to study online at home like a snow day, 10 years ago, my school also didnt have AC
Exactly! 46 here I remember when we had seasons, not fucking 80 degrees in November. I remember needing a jacket to go trick or treating during Halloween. It 75 degrees today where I live for high. This shit is real, and just go look at your rivers and lakes if you want to see the real effects of climate change as well.
I grew up in Ohio in the '70s. The first snowfall was usually in late September. The ground was completely covered in snow in October and you didn’t see grass again until some time in April. The snow wasn’t completely gone until May and the giant mounds of plowed snow usually lasted into June. More than six months of serious Winter every year, nothing like that happening today.
I’m just saying young people believe in climate science and apparently thats a hot take.
30+
just feels like a irrelevant detail and wants a fight. I remember white Christmases and brown ones. No need to minimize to my experiences because I haven’t lived 40+ winters, but know damn well 110⁰ summer days. I’m just bummed that because of greedy fucks my generation will be cooked to death before our best by date, fingers crossed we start world war 3 and nuked before that.
I’m just saying young people believe in climate science
If you actually want to understand why you got push back then that’s not actually what you said, or implied. Your wording was a rebuttal of the statement that average older people have personally observed the pattern of climate changing. Young people believing in climate science at a higher rate than older people can also be true and is not contradictory.
The point you seem to have missed is the older people should not need to “believe” - they have literally experienced the change and should be able to observe the pattern and draw a logical conclusion.
The problem you are raising is real, but it’s a totally different one - the impact of propaganda and rationalising something that isn’t true. When you talk to your parents get them to talk about when they were kids, ask them what winters were like, the example in thread about Halloween is a great one - get them talking about trick or treating as a kid, was it cold etc then you can gently point out that it wasn’t like that for you (if that example doesn’t work pick another).
The point though is your parents are wilfully ignoring the evidence of their own senses most likely because Fox news and their conservative friends told them to, and that social pressure is greater than logic.
Any average person who has been alive for 30 years or more will tell you climate change is real, no need for an actual scientist.
I know so many towns named after a creek that doesn’t exist anymore
Oh, my friend…
You wildly overestimate the capabilities of the “average” person. I don’t even want to sound facetious or smug when I say that. Not even including the willful ignoring of the obvious thanks to ideology, politics, or other internally constructed mental barriers that deliberately exclude inconvenient informtion.
I mean seriously its kinda depressing taking a real look outside and seeing how bad things are
George Carlin on stupid people
You’re overestimating some of us oldsters here. I work with people who are mostly in their 60s and 70s, and they can almost in the same sentence claim that 1) summers are hotter and winters are warmer than they used to be, and that 2) climate change is a hoax.
I recently had a talk with someone who first brushed all the political shenanigans off with “climate has always changed; that’s totally normal” and then three thoughts further tells me it’s happening faster than we could adjust to. So what now … is it natural or is it faster than normal? Because I don’t have an issue with the temperature rising a few degree over 10000 years. I do have an issue with them rising over 100 years.
I guess in that person’s defence you could hold a consistent position whilst staying both those things. They don’t appear to deny that the climate is changing and does change, they just dispute whether it’s normal for it to do that and they don’t seem describe the frequency or period of that “natural” change so they could be describing something they’ve seen happen over and over in their lifetime hence why they think it’s normal or describing something they’ve merely aware happens and this believe to be normal. They then state that it’s happening faster than we can adjust to, which depending on the rest of the conversation isn’t necessarily contradictory because, that the climate would change of its own accord for non-anthropogenic reasons can be taken as true at the same time that it might be doing so at a different pace for unknown reasons. It can be faster than normal whilst still being normal that it is doing so at all so to speak.
Although really, if they openly accept both those premises as true then it really doesn’t matter because the fact is, as they observe, the climate is changing rapidly and it’s problematic. Unless they have some better solution in mind maybe we should try and act on the levers we have actual control over.
Yeah but some days are colder, so climate change isn’t real. Ever think of that?
If they’re the type to make observations and listen, their pattern centers are freaking out. However, many are on a 9-to-5/wage slave, nose grinding life so they’re coping only when it arises, neglecting future patterns. But if they listened to experts, they could be chill.
But no, there are ostriches.
Every year when I point out to my parents that it’s unseasonably warm, they always try to rationalize it in some way, like “oh it was always like this.” Like oh my god no it wasn’t. You’re not that senile yet. But their programming is rooted so deep that they can’t see the tangible reality in front of them.
I feel like this is the case for many conservatives.
I know plenty of olds that refuse to believe that people are causing it.
The deniers are sub-average
Where did you get that statistic? If anything it’s the 30- group who actually believe in climate science. My parents are 60 and don’t believe the climate is warming, despite new rules rolling out in my lifetime about extreme heat advisories. My high school started having ‘heat’ days where we had to study online at home like a snow day, 10 years ago, my school also didnt have AC
I’m 40+. I remember actual winters. With snow. Lots more snow than we’ve gotten in the last 20 years.
Exactly! 46 here I remember when we had seasons, not fucking 80 degrees in November. I remember needing a jacket to go trick or treating during Halloween. It 75 degrees today where I live for high. This shit is real, and just go look at your rivers and lakes if you want to see the real effects of climate change as well.
I grew up in Ohio in the '70s. The first snowfall was usually in late September. The ground was completely covered in snow in October and you didn’t see grass again until some time in April. The snow wasn’t completely gone until May and the giant mounds of plowed snow usually lasted into June. More than six months of serious Winter every year, nothing like that happening today.
I’m just saying young people believe in climate science and apparently thats a hot take.
just feels like a irrelevant detail and wants a fight. I remember white Christmases and brown ones. No need to minimize to my experiences because I haven’t lived 40+ winters, but know damn well 110⁰ summer days. I’m just bummed that because of greedy fucks my generation will be cooked to death before our best by date, fingers crossed we start world war 3 and nuked before that.
If you actually want to understand why you got push back then that’s not actually what you said, or implied. Your wording was a rebuttal of the statement that average older people have personally observed the pattern of climate changing. Young people believing in climate science at a higher rate than older people can also be true and is not contradictory.
The point you seem to have missed is the older people should not need to “believe” - they have literally experienced the change and should be able to observe the pattern and draw a logical conclusion.
The problem you are raising is real, but it’s a totally different one - the impact of propaganda and rationalising something that isn’t true. When you talk to your parents get them to talk about when they were kids, ask them what winters were like, the example in thread about Halloween is a great one - get them talking about trick or treating as a kid, was it cold etc then you can gently point out that it wasn’t like that for you (if that example doesn’t work pick another).
The point though is your parents are wilfully ignoring the evidence of their own senses most likely because Fox news and their conservative friends told them to, and that social pressure is greater than logic.