I get it’s upsetting but there are just objectively way more republicans than there are leftists in the US. So there is logic here.
Also, vote switchers count for double. So there would actually need to be twice as many possible voters on the left for it to be as appealing as the right.
As always the proper solution is to alter the conditions that incentivize this behavior.
Yet time and time again, polling shows that Americans prefer leftist policies when presented with them independently of party affiliation. As well as younger generations trending further left.
Right, but they aren’t presented them independently of party affiliation. They’re told “those scary communists have good policies but they want to destroy America!” And most people believe that.
So, wait, if the policies are popular, but the party affiliation isn’t, how the fuck is the go-to strategy to keep the party but give up on the policies instead of the other way around?
Right, but they aren’t presented them independently of party affiliation.
The last candidate who ran on leftist policies was Biden. He won. Of course, he was lying his wrinkly ass off when he did, but he won running on leftist policies.
Are they though? How about this, can you still call yourself anti-genocide if you vote for the candidate who puts forth a slower, more well marketted genocide where the same bullets in children and attacks still happen, just with a lot of stern faces and some hand wringing?
can you still call yourself anti-genocide if you vote for the candidate who puts forth a slower, more well marketted genocide
I mean, yes, objectively? Mathematically, only a Democrat or a Republican can win the United States general election. If you can use your influence to vote for Less Genocide instead of More Genocide, that is what electoral anti-genocide is. You don’t have to like it, but those are the options.
Who are these leftist policy politicians that leftists refuse to vote for? I have a suspicion that what you’re referring to as leftist policy is actually liberal policy, and you either don’t understand or care to make the distinction.
Half of the things on that list were directly accomplished in small parts by the Biden and Obama admins, despite having 48 or less DNC in over 13 years. The problem with your claim is that anybody with a browser can see for themselves that you’re trying to revise history.
Yeah Mamdani just won and is a perfect example of a partial solution to what I’m talking about. But since you didn’t ask about my solutions that probably won’t make sense. I’m happy to explain if you actually want to discuss.
How can it be wrong? Do you think there are more leftists than republicans? Or do you deny the math advantage of switchers vs those who might stay home?
There are multiple reasons candidates fail. Harris failed largely because voters didn’t know her and they saw her as a stand in for Biden, who they were angry with. Also she had sort of a flailing campaign strategy. And being a black woman never helps in the US.
I’m not arguing democrats or leftists should moderate their positions. My politics are probably not too different from yours. But the first step to solving the problem is understanding it. And this theory that there are 100 million sleeping American communists waiting to be unleashed doesn’t have any evidence behind it. So just running someone further left is not a cheat code for winning elections. There is a lot more to beating fascism than that.
Well, as an example, I think something like socialized healthcare could appeal to the majority of Americans. The only reason Democrats don’t press the issue is because they get money from health insurance companies.
I think this goes for many issues seen as “leftist”. Rather than embracing the left, democrats have spent decades moving closer to the middle. This is the reason they’ve been losing. Pushing candidates like Hillary and Harris that give up ground to the right.
I think they need to embrace the left, and work to convince middle America that their policies are good for everyone.
Biden went left. This is just objectively true. He literally just adopted the progressive policy positions his opponents had in exchange for them becoming surrogates.
Harris went right. And she lost.
Now Biden didn’t govern to the left. And that also clearly hurt him/ Kamala in 2024. But he objectively campaigned to court progressives.
Biden went left of Clinton’s 2020 positions. It was all a lie.
Is there any actual examples of Harris going right of Biden?
Well, she said she wouldn’t change anything from how he did things. Then announced she would appoint a republican to her cabinet, which was further to the right than biden.
He attempted all of those things. The student loans were blocked by Republicans and courts on 3 separate occasions, so he only managed to forgive $183Bn of student loans.
The other two things were fillibustered by Republicans in the senate which at its highest DNC was a 51:49 w/ DNC Speakerwith 4 IND and before that a 49:51 w/ GOP speaker.
The only way to obtain real progress is to remove Republicans down to less than 40 like we breifly achieved 16 years ago for 2 months in order to pass medicaid expansion, would have passed the public option if not for IND Leiberman.
The other two things were fillibustered by Republicans in the senate which at its highest was a 51:49
It would take 50 to end the filibuster forever. Democrats preferred to keep it around so you would have an excuse. After all, they didn’t need to end the filibuster to accomplish their only policy goal of leveling Gaza.
Her policy stances were left of Biden but the average person doesn’t know jack shit about policy and instead only know she had the Chenneys on stage with her and George W’s endorsement.
Her unrealized gains tax on over a million alone had the potential to save this country, since billionaires and multimillionaires generally gain untaxed income by leveraging their stocks with longterm collateral loans.
The copium is real. I suppose some banjos are more average than others.
You can live in a delusional reality of your own creation, but you lost this one in October of 24. Harris was shit, she ran to the right, it cost us the election and and handed the country to fascism.
It’s what we said would happen before it happened. Its what we said was happening while it was happening. And, begrudgingly, we’ve been able to drag the majority perspective to understand the consequences of not pressuring Harris to shift left, of not shamelessly putting yourself behind candidates before they come to get your vote
The arguments I’ve been making have won. The Karen’s of the world get it now. The CNN voters get it now. They under stand how they were wrong for how they approached this in 24.
And I’ll drag you too, just like I have all the others. It’s been quite the journey, and I don’t mind you as comrade.
Yes, the same election year of 2020 gave Biden the most votes in history, and Trump the second most votes in history behind him. Beating the pervious record holder, Obama.
Kamala 2024 would have knocked Trump 2020 down to 3rd, but Trump 2024 retained 2nd place under Biden 2020. So it goes Biden 2020, Trump 2024, Kamala 2024, Trump 2020.
Trump has the 2nd and 4th most votes in history. We are fucked.
And biden still only barely beat trump. After courting the left by running on policies the left likes such as raising the minimum wage, childcare, family leave, revisiting the public option, rescheduling cannabis and so on.
Then he got into office and made it crystal clear that he wasn’t going to do any of that because his only priority was making sure netanyahu got whatever he wanted. He betrayed anyone on the left who voted for him.
But congress got in his waaaay! They didn’t get in his way when he broke the Leahy law to sell weapons for genocide. Funny how the excuses evaporate when it’s the only thing any centrist has ever wanted.
Totally with a but, look at the percentage of people voting. Recent elections have had turn out percentages the US hasn’t seen since the 60s as well. The records are an indication of population growth, but they are also an indication of more people voting by percentage than do typically, to be fair.
I get it’s upsetting but there are just objectively way more republicans than there are leftists in the US.
I get that you don’t want to hear this because it gets in the way of moving to the right, but republicans won’t vote for republican lite when they have full fat fascist.
All you’re doing is capitulating for no reason. Well, except that you want to.
There are not more republicans. What there are are checked out non voters and a “left” that had so much splintered infighting no one really knows what the left is.
There is also a swath of single issue voters who vote on guns. They actually would flip in a heartbeat with a liberal gun owner platform. It’s not a new phenomenon.
You’re just arguing semantics. If people consistently vote republican then they are republicans right now. That they might switch for the right candidate isn’t really relevant.
But yeah gun stuff is an example of a position someone could use to appeal to fence sitters. It will absolutely piss off a portion of the Democratic base though.
I get it’s upsetting but there are just objectively way more republicans than there are leftists in the US. So there is logic here.
Also, vote switchers count for double. So there would actually need to be twice as many possible voters on the left for it to be as appealing as the right.
As always the proper solution is to alter the conditions that incentivize this behavior.
Yet time and time again, polling shows that Americans prefer leftist policies when presented with them independently of party affiliation. As well as younger generations trending further left.
Right, but they aren’t presented them independently of party affiliation. They’re told “those scary communists have good policies but they want to destroy America!” And most people believe that.
So, wait, if the policies are popular, but the party affiliation isn’t, how the fuck is the go-to strategy to keep the party but give up on the policies instead of the other way around?
Because team sports. And propaganda
The last candidate who ran on leftist policies was Biden. He won. Of course, he was lying his wrinkly ass off when he did, but he won running on leftist policies.
Only just after the election and before the election, during election only the right wingers get elected.
So where are all the leftist voters then?
Right on the table where democrats keep leaving them.
I said voters, if those people aren’t voting, then they aren’t leftist voters.
I think you might be working with a different definition of ‘left’
Leftist people voting for the best of limited options are still leftist voters.
Are they though? How about this, can you still call yourself anti-genocide if you vote for the candidate who puts forth a slower, more well marketted genocide where the same bullets in children and attacks still happen, just with a lot of stern faces and some hand wringing?
I mean, yes, objectively? Mathematically, only a Democrat or a Republican can win the United States general election. If you can use your influence to vote for Less Genocide instead of More Genocide, that is what electoral anti-genocide is. You don’t have to like it, but those are the options.
So are people who agree with leftist policies but not with right-wing liberal democrats.
Careful now, purity tests abound.
Removed by mod
Who are these leftist policy politicians that leftists refuse to vote for? I have a suspicion that what you’re referring to as leftist policy is actually liberal policy, and you either don’t understand or care to make the distinction.
DNC platform:
Bodily autonomy
Tax the rich
Remove money from politics
Healthcare for all
Regulating industries
Protecting the environment
Renewable power
That’s not borne out by their actions in office. Their actions in office indicate that their platform is genocide and nothing else.
Make all the excuses you want. You know better.
Half of the things on that list were directly accomplished in small parts by the Biden and Obama admins, despite having 48 or less DNC in over 13 years. The problem with your claim is that anybody with a browser can see for themselves that you’re trying to revise history.
Keep parroting this lie. It shows how honest you are in all other things.
Winning a lot of elections that way?
A progressive just won in Fort Worth. In a special election. You know, those things that usually only draw fox-addled octogenarians to the polls.
The “progressives can’t win so we have to make sure to hamstring them all the time” shit is just another centrist lie.
Pretty good, it seems. Feckless Chuck and Mr Jeffries have no complaints.
Yeah Mamdani just won and is a perfect example of a partial solution to what I’m talking about. But since you didn’t ask about my solutions that probably won’t make sense. I’m happy to explain if you actually want to discuss.
But don’t let me rain on your hate parade.
NYC isn’t the federal government.
I think Harris’s failure should be the clue that this isn’t right. You’re not going to win by courting conservatives
She doubled-down on supporting Israel recently.
You know, as a “fuck you” to all her supporters.
Oh, her remaining supporters love that shit.
How can it be wrong? Do you think there are more leftists than republicans? Or do you deny the math advantage of switchers vs those who might stay home?
There are multiple reasons candidates fail. Harris failed largely because voters didn’t know her and they saw her as a stand in for Biden, who they were angry with. Also she had sort of a flailing campaign strategy. And being a black woman never helps in the US.
I’m not arguing democrats or leftists should moderate their positions. My politics are probably not too different from yours. But the first step to solving the problem is understanding it. And this theory that there are 100 million sleeping American communists waiting to be unleashed doesn’t have any evidence behind it. So just running someone further left is not a cheat code for winning elections. There is a lot more to beating fascism than that.
You’re chasing people who hate you and abandoning voters to do it. Stop.
But there’s a lot moooooooore fascists! We have to be just like them to win! That always works!!!
Well, as an example, I think something like socialized healthcare could appeal to the majority of Americans. The only reason Democrats don’t press the issue is because they get money from health insurance companies.
I think this goes for many issues seen as “leftist”. Rather than embracing the left, democrats have spent decades moving closer to the middle. This is the reason they’ve been losing. Pushing candidates like Hillary and Harris that give up ground to the right.
I think they need to embrace the left, and work to convince middle America that their policies are good for everyone.
Biden over there having got more votes than anyone in history like
Either we are saying Biden went farther left, or is a direct conflict to this statement
Biden went left. This is just objectively true. He literally just adopted the progressive policy positions his opponents had in exchange for them becoming surrogates.
Harris went right. And she lost.
Now Biden didn’t govern to the left. And that also clearly hurt him/ Kamala in 2024. But he objectively campaigned to court progressives.
Please tell me how Biden went left? He clicked resume on the shit from Obamas presidency.
Biden went left of Trump, that’s all. Which Harris was left of as well.
Is there any actual examples of Harris going right of Biden?
Biden went left of Clinton’s 2020 positions. It was all a lie.
Well, she said she wouldn’t change anything from how he did things. Then announced she would appoint a republican to her cabinet, which was further to the right than biden.
He ran on forgiving student loans, creating a public option, and codifying roe v wade
Once he was in office he promptly forgot about all of them.
He attempted all of those things. The student loans were blocked by Republicans and courts on 3 separate occasions, so he only managed to forgive $183Bn of student loans.
The other two things were fillibustered by Republicans in the senate which at its highest DNC was a 51:49 w/ DNC Speakerwith 4 IND and before that a 49:51 w/ GOP speaker.
The only way to obtain real progress is to remove Republicans down to less than 40 like we breifly achieved 16 years ago for 2 months in order to pass medicaid expansion, would have passed the public option if not for IND Leiberman.
He pretended to.
It would take 50 to end the filibuster forever. Democrats preferred to keep it around so you would have an excuse. After all, they didn’t need to end the filibuster to accomplish their only policy goal of leveling Gaza.
It’s one thing to ignore 183 Billion USD, it’s another to intentionally exclude it from the quote.
Her policy stances were left of Biden but the average person doesn’t know jack shit about policy and instead only know she had the Chenneys on stage with her and George W’s endorsement.
No, they weren’t, but the average banjo doesn’t know this.
And to be clear, were talking about the manner in which a candidate campaigns.
Her unrealized gains tax on over a million alone had the potential to save this country, since billionaires and multimillionaires generally gain untaxed income by leveraging their stocks with longterm collateral loans.
The copium is real. I suppose some banjos are more average than others.
You can live in a delusional reality of your own creation, but you lost this one in October of 24. Harris was shit, she ran to the right, it cost us the election and and handed the country to fascism.
It’s what we said would happen before it happened. Its what we said was happening while it was happening. And, begrudgingly, we’ve been able to drag the majority perspective to understand the consequences of not pressuring Harris to shift left, of not shamelessly putting yourself behind candidates before they come to get your vote
The arguments I’ve been making have won. The Karen’s of the world get it now. The CNN voters get it now. They under stand how they were wrong for how they approached this in 24.
And I’ll drag you too, just like I have all the others. It’s been quite the journey, and I don’t mind you as comrade.
I think that had more to do with COVID and Trump, but who knows. Anyway, 4 years later they lost.
Who got the second most votes in history? I’ll give you a hint, it was his opponent. That’s how fucked the US is.
Not in the same election year, Trump got 74 million in 2020. After Biden was gone Trump got 77 million in 2024. Harris got 75 million in 2024.
Yes, the same election year of 2020 gave Biden the most votes in history, and Trump the second most votes in history behind him. Beating the pervious record holder, Obama.
Kamala 2024 would have knocked Trump 2020 down to 3rd, but Trump 2024 retained 2nd place under Biden 2020. So it goes Biden 2020, Trump 2024, Kamala 2024, Trump 2020.
Trump has the 2nd and 4th most votes in history. We are fucked.
2020 was unprecedented. You can’t compare that to anything.
And biden still only barely beat trump. After courting the left by running on policies the left likes such as raising the minimum wage, childcare, family leave, revisiting the public option, rescheduling cannabis and so on.
Then he got into office and made it crystal clear that he wasn’t going to do any of that because his only priority was making sure netanyahu got whatever he wanted. He betrayed anyone on the left who voted for him.
But congress got in his waaaay! They didn’t get in his way when he broke the Leahy law to sell weapons for genocide. Funny how the excuses evaporate when it’s the only thing any centrist has ever wanted.
Yeah population goes up. That’s probably true for most presidential elections.
Totally with a but, look at the percentage of people voting. Recent elections have had turn out percentages the US hasn’t seen since the 60s as well. The records are an indication of population growth, but they are also an indication of more people voting by percentage than do typically, to be fair.
I get that you don’t want to hear this because it gets in the way of moving to the right, but republicans won’t vote for republican lite when they have full fat fascist.
All you’re doing is capitulating for no reason. Well, except that you want to.
There are not more republicans. What there are are checked out non voters and a “left” that had so much splintered infighting no one really knows what the left is.
There is also a swath of single issue voters who vote on guns. They actually would flip in a heartbeat with a liberal gun owner platform. It’s not a new phenomenon.
You’re just arguing semantics. If people consistently vote republican then they are republicans right now. That they might switch for the right candidate isn’t really relevant.
But yeah gun stuff is an example of a position someone could use to appeal to fence sitters. It will absolutely piss off a portion of the Democratic base though.
No matter how many positions you abandon or how many minorities you betray, republicans will vote for republicans.