One side aligns with my views 70% of the time. The other actively wants me and everyone like me to die. I refuse to acknowledge the differences between them. I’ll actually deploy this lack of understanding as a weapon to depress voter turnout and make sure the second group gets to wield power!
One side SAYS they align with their views, and then do the same shit as Republicans, and kind of just expect you to swallow excuses. Meanwhile we’ve watched Donald act unilaterally with near absolute power for two years, so we know objectively that the lack of power was (and is) never the problem. It was that they didn’t actually support what they said they did.
Still, this is very obviously the worse outcome. Democracy isn’t make a wish. You grow up and vote for the least shitty option to prevent the even more shitty options like an adult. Or you can keep crying about not getting your will like a child in the toy isle.
It was never about lack of power, but upending the democratic process.
Any president could plow through using executive orders, but no sane person would want that, and the fact that Trump is using that kind of power virtually unopposed because the GOP controls both senate and congress, should terrify everyone. Instead, here we are, asking why his predecessors wouldn’t resort to despotic measures.
People can’t pay their grocery bills, rent, get an abortion, and are being criminalized for being homeless and I’m still hearing people talking about norms as if that is the important issue.
It is a massive negative that Democrats, having had the power to change the (air quotes) “democratic process” at least twice in the last 20 years, across multiple economic calamities for workers, chose not to do so. (Conveniently while increasing their own wealth exponentially in the process.)
I want to understand what your playbook looks like here, because any executive order can be erased just as easy as it was signed.
But even more importantly, I want to know what the appeal is of a “Trump of the left”. Do people really think that a guy who believes that he has authority to hold both executive and legislative powers, is going to do better this time?
Someone that actually wants to disrupt the ills of the system could have tried effectively using the DOJ to imprison every pedophile, traitor, and corrupt politician currently in office, that would leave a nice heap of missing seats in the senate, getting a majority would be much easier. Remove the filibuster and pack the courts with a fresh set of folks like KBJ.
While you’re at it, use the DOE to enforce radical a climate agenda that disrupts the power of oil. You could even use the climate emergency to justify massive reductions in military presence around the world, letting the military budget go towards jobs programs for local green development. They could actually follow leahy laws and cut all military aid to Israel.
I would have hoped from the Trump presidency, more folks would realize the rules are largely built on biased interpretations and that you can bias those in other directions to make the country better. Now maybe you think I am absurd in my views, but maybe we can compromise a bit further than spending months with websites and means testing to slowly roll out partial student debt relief while giving all the time in the world for the right to send court cases against it. Put simply a Trump of the left would have done the effective thing of simply abolishing the debt unilaterally and giving the courts the much more difficult task of reinstating debt, rather than moving slow enough that it’s stopped before it starts.
See you say the same shit as repulicans but thats literally what the post is about. Democrats were never going to repeal abortion rights or the voting rights acts.they were never going to start an oil crisis or a trade war and tank the economy the same way. They were never going to support ice the same way (they actually just held out on a partial government shutdown and exceeded my expectations in doing so). Saying that they do the same is a straight up lie. And I’m not saying dems are perfect. The bar is in hell. But they aren’t doing the same.
By republicans. Clearly you’ve never had a civics course or you wouldn’t say stupid shit that shows you don’t understand how the US federal government functions.
You’re the only one bringing up an idea of “reinforcement”.
On the other hand, you do absolutely legislate law when abortion protections only had a SCOTUS case protecting them, especially since it was one that they’d been nibbling at for decades. Which is part of the reason that it’d been a topic for decades, and a campaign promise of Obama. One he decided later to just forget about.
a chronic lack of understanding how this government functions
It’s always funny to see the shitlibs show off the fantasy they construct to protect their sad worldview.
Look around at the US. This is your doing. You guys won. You drove the politics since the 90’s - and this is the result. None of this was a surprise to anyone but you.
I’m bringing up the correct terms here. When the supreme court decided something was legal there’s zero reason to reinforce those legal issues as they are settled law. Every conservative on the court also confirmed this was settled law during their confirmation hearings. They obviously lied. But you can’t legislate based off of Calvinball.
It’s always funny to see the shitlibs show off the fantasy they construct to protect their sad worldview.
Oh fuck off dude. I’m a shit lib? You guys don’t even fucking vote during the primaries so your candidates never make the general elections. All people like you do is snipe on the sidelines and never participate.
People like you are literally why the left loses so goddamn always.
How? By what mechanism could he prevent the supreme court from overturning established legal understanding? Because that’s not a thing the president gets to do, like what the fuck are you even talking about?
I’ll argue democract are ineffective to a fault, even ineffective in a weaponizable way to punish their consitutients for straying from the center. Again, the bar is in hell. But they did not repeal abortion rights directly and never would have.
It’s not though. The Democrats are feckless. You’ll see them in the dictionary when looking up weaponized incompetence (OK that has a vaguely different meaning but you know what I mean). But if the right had never gained power, the momentum to lose these rights never would have begun.
Donald acting unilaterally is not just a matter of a color map on the senate chart. It’s also a matter of a well-funded cult of worship that can never allow any dissonance.
Imagine a Democrat, in a majority, introduced a bill to make streets safer and add bike lanes. Imagine two Democratic senators rebutted “Hey, I don’t like that. I enjoy my F-150.” They probably wouldn’t be instantly kicked from the party and have their homes threatened to be burnt down. They’d have people gently try to negotiate with them.
On the other hand, let’s say a Democrat wanted a bigger change like jail time for use of a Nazi swastika, or the death penalty for ICE agents, or deploying troops to assist Ukraine. They wouldn’t really have a guarantee that every single senator in the Democratic aisle would stand against an impeachment action, because they don’t have that religious following; just general shared motives.
Democrats are allowed to disagree. It’s often a good premise that prevents all-out corruption or oligarchy, but it’s a notable weakness to account for when pushing landmark legislation off what people call a solid majority. Other comments have pointed out the original VRA passed with the help of Republicans because some Democrats stood against it.
I am both brown and from a third world (both in the original unaligned sense and in the newer impoverished sense) country. You fucked us over with Trump.
The slaves didn’t care that Lincoln said in his debates with Douglas that whites were superior to blacks and that he supported an Illinois law against miscegenation. They cared that he removed them from bondage. Smart people take whatever progress they can get.
Republicans destroying USAID is expected to kill how many millions of brown people in third world countries? How many children unvaccinated and uneducated?
USAID killed more brown kids in third world countries than most US programs. It was built by the CIA to destabilize countries and foment dissidence towards unfriendly governments (that usually aren’t able to provide for their citizens because of US sanctions anyway). Let’s not pretend it is bad for the world that this is gone; it is just amazing there are no longer any intelligent republicans that understand US foreign policy and allowed it to go away.
Both sides aren’t as similar anymore, as in Republicans literally stopped paying attention to the intelligence community and what they do to project US military imperialist power across the world and accidentally are helping the rest of the world break free from US imperialism; but ‘both sides’ want the exact same thing, ones just no longer intelligent enough to hide it behind doublespeak.
Seriously pretending USAID was a good thing is like pretending the NED promotes democracy or the US has ever been the victim in any conflict.
Missed your username, naturally you think feeding the hungry is an evil CIA plot.
Not that you actually care about the lives of brown people in 3rd world countries except as a way to generate outrage, but 92 million lives saved is the estimate.
‘Feeding the hungry’ is an evil CIA plot when the US State department made them hungry.
And yes, as a brown person now in a 3rd world country (technically second world, but anything not white is third world to you people), I do care about the crimes the US does to the country I’ve been adopted into; including what USAID has done.
Pretending any thing the US has ever done has been done out of benevolence is, at best, pure willful ignorance. Ask someone in a country that has been affected by USAID why USAID was necessary sometime. Go on.
The US messed up most of Latin America. USAID makes things better. Removing USAID makes things worse. It doesn’t matter whether it is out of benevolence (the real reason is that making Latin America better means the US doesn’t have to deal with a migrant crisis). What matters is that it’s better than the alternative.
Don’t need to trust them. You can trust the literal CIA when their staff says USAID helps them achieve in the open what they used to do covertly and thus freeing resources from the agency (to REALLY focus on the unspeakably evil shit)
it is propaganda method by the right, like your vote doesnt matter. thats how we end up getting schumers and hakeems of the congress, when less people vote, more conservative candidates are elected, this includes the DINOs. maine is currently fighting with susan collins, mills and platner 2 of them are conservatives.
Let’s grant your premise. I don’t think if I had a friend who liked 70% of the same shit as me but I found out the other 30 they’re assaulting kids, killing minorities, sending money I gave them to genocidaires, doing unspeakable atrocities to ALL of the people outside our shared neighborhood, and being buddy buddy with the other dudes who do that shit 100% of the time, I would just not want to hang out with that guy.
So, actually that question though? Genocide used to be a really, really bad thing, and here you’re making light of it. I feel like people have lost the plot a bit if they talk about an actual genocide like this. “Yeah, sure they committed a bit of genocide, but have you seen the other guy?” I feel like I’m losing my mind
If you market yourself as being against fascism, maybe don’t vehemently support a different fascist regime and shout down anyone who questions it.
The fact that people like you are spending your energy getting pissy with the voters and not the fucking Democratic party who refused to change their stance is fucking insane.
Thoughts, sure. You’ve chosen to spend your time attacking those who wanted change, not the ones who refused to not back the systemic murder of an entire people.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t realize I’m a different person.
The two thoughts I hold are “on election day, it’s self-gratifying not to vote for the outcome with the highest lows, raising the floor” and “before and after election day, do whatever you can to make the lives of politicians who fail miserable and support better candidates, up to and including civil unrest”
Not voting is categorically ineffective. There may be plenty of things more effective than voting, but not voting isn’t one of them.
People love to present this scenario like it’s a lever with three positions: candidate A, candidate B, or civil unrest. But it’s not. It’s one switch with two buttons (candidate a, candidate b) and another separate button for civil unrest. You can do both
I don’t know what kind of person could look at parents being handed the remains of their child in plastic baggies and at any point in their life go “oh wow are they still going on about the genocide?”
No, it’s the people like you who are going: people should have voted for some genocide to prevent more genocide, instead of saying something sane like: maybe the fucking Democrats shouldn’t have been promoting a fascist in Israel while running on being anti fascist
LIAR! Of fucking course the Democrats shouldn’t have been doing that! Nobody’s disputing that! You are inventing a false dichotomy out of thin fucking air!
Who’s lying? You, right here in this thread, are ragging on the voters. Not the genocide supporting Democrats who refused to stop supporting fascist Netanyahu.
You have decided to spend your energy not attacking the corrupt shitbags, but the people who are stuck STILL asking them to change their stance. What the fuck are you fighting for?
You are cherry-picking only the things I said in this thread to try to crucify me for being on-topic. That’s disingenuous bullshit and you fucking know it.
And besides that…
Not the genocide supporting Democrats who refused to stop supporting fascist Netanyahu.
What part of “of fucking course the Democrats shouldn’t have been doing that” did you not understand? I did, in fact, criticize genocide-supporting Democrats right in the very comment you replied to!
And moreover, EVERY SINGLE OTHER COURSE OF ACTION SUPPORTED FASCIST NETANYAHU EVEN MORE.
You have decided to spend your energy not attacking the corrupt shitbags, but the people who are stuck STILL asking them to change their stance. What the fuck are you fighting for?
I’m fighting for you to quit being delusional accelerationist dipshits who cause more genocide, among countless other catastrophes, through your sheer stupidity!
I ALSO fight for replacing the genocide-supporting Democrats with something better, IN OTHER TIMES AND CONTEXTS WHERE IT’S ACTUALLY APPROPRIATE! And fuck you for telling lies, falsely claiming I don’t!
Good thing the candidate that was on the ballot wasn’t associated with him or his administration in any way and also vigorously denounced genocide at every opportunity! Right? … right??
Right, Harris sucked. So glad I didn’t vote and Trump won instead. That has worked out so much better for Iran and the rest of the world, too. Could you imagine even trying to justify voting in the last election?!?!
the goal post has never moved from “try to leave the world better because of me or worse in spite of me, rather than better in spite of me or worse because of me”
What goalpost? The goal is to make things better than other alternatives. Harris was better than Trump. It was a choice between the two. It’s very simple. How do people not get that?
Yes, despite my sassiness towards you in this thread this is a true and wise observation that goes ignored too often. My disagreements are not pertaining to the idea of inaction constituting action
No worries, I would 100% prefer the proverbial third track, but it isn’t connected yet. In the meantime, I’ll have extreme disdain for the jackasses standing around moralizing while the train is actively running people over.
Political power is gained via votes! Vote! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
i love how you concede that the system is so dysfunctional you can’t even oppose a genocide under it and simultaneously expect me to to believe that individuals voting (or not) is somehow making a meaningful difference in the outcome
funnything in rick and morty, the very same episode supernova says"what is is-rayel" referring to israel, rick and morty and FAMILY guy are 1 of the 2 shows that poke fun of the ridiculous of hte gaza/palestine conflict.
i mean not really, it’s not out of moralism that i choose not to vote for genocidal warmonger red/blue, in fact the moralism is thinking voting for genocidaires is ‘pragmatic’. not to mention continuing to votescold people over a year later lmao
organizing outside electoralism builds actual power. voting for slightly different managers of the same bloodthirsty war machine doesn’t
While organizing outside electoralism is great, electoralism is still the primary way power is apportioned in this country. Abandoning electoralism is ceding power to people who will use it for evil.
if the ‘future of the world’ hinges on genociding an expendible out-group and the system is powerless to change that, then i choose to walk away from omelas
Voting for neither is the same as voting for both.
if voting for neither is the same voting for both, then can we formally acknowledge that my vote makes zero difference and maybe people can stop votescolding?
No, because voting for one is not the same as voting for neither/both.
Voting for the perfect candidate > voting for A > not voting > voting for B
The perfect candidate didn’t exist, but instead of choosing the second best option, you chose the third best option, and we ended up with the worst option because a lot of people did what you did. Thanks a bunch.
Um, the right obviously! I want everyone on the opposite side to die so obviously the other side must feel the same!
Genuinely hard to not be black pilled by this constant bullshit like as if there are genuinely elected officials making comments about “MAGA hunting” or some shit. Literally only one side wants to eat the other. One wants death the other wants brunch. Fucking hell.
No I absolutely want fascists to die. A world where we allow fascists to live is a world that will fall to fascism, because fascists don’t play by the same rules as the rest of us.
Yeah. I get the SPIRIT of the idea, but MAGA has committed WAY more than enough heinous crimes where I’d ACCEPT them being thrown of out power, but in my heart of hearts on my extended wishlist I’d like to see them all drawn and quartered.
Mostly it’s, GTFO of my personal life that doesn’t affect you. Practice some of that liberty you like to pay lip service too. Admit there is a gun proliferation issue and address it.
Plenty of them do. People like tucker Carlson and Alex Jones have audiences. And for God’s sake /r/conservative, and practically all of reddit is a conservative hatefest now.
Edit: nevermind, I misunderstood this comment originally.
One side aligns with my views 70% of the time. The other actively wants me and everyone like me to die. I refuse to acknowledge the differences between them. I’ll actually deploy this lack of understanding as a weapon to depress voter turnout and make sure the second group gets to wield power!
False.
One side SAYS they align with their views, and then do the same shit as Republicans, and kind of just expect you to swallow excuses. Meanwhile we’ve watched Donald act unilaterally with near absolute power for two years, so we know objectively that the lack of power was (and is) never the problem. It was that they didn’t actually support what they said they did.
You don’t know his views, he could be really into fracking, small business owners, and war.
That last one for sure.
What do you think I include in that 30%?
Still, this is very obviously the worse outcome. Democracy isn’t make a wish. You grow up and vote for the least shitty option to prevent the even more shitty options like an adult. Or you can keep crying about not getting your will like a child in the toy isle.
It was never about lack of power, but upending the democratic process.
Any president could plow through using executive orders, but no sane person would want that, and the fact that Trump is using that kind of power virtually unopposed because the GOP controls both senate and congress, should terrify everyone. Instead, here we are, asking why his predecessors wouldn’t resort to despotic measures.
LOL
People can’t pay their grocery bills, rent, get an abortion, and are being criminalized for being homeless and I’m still hearing people talking about norms as if that is the important issue.
It is a massive negative that Democrats, having had the power to change the (air quotes) “democratic process” at least twice in the last 20 years, across multiple economic calamities for workers, chose not to do so. (Conveniently while increasing their own wealth exponentially in the process.)
I want to understand what your playbook looks like here, because any executive order can be erased just as easy as it was signed.
But even more importantly, I want to know what the appeal is of a “Trump of the left”. Do people really think that a guy who believes that he has authority to hold both executive and legislative powers, is going to do better this time?
Someone that actually wants to disrupt the ills of the system could have tried effectively using the DOJ to imprison every pedophile, traitor, and corrupt politician currently in office, that would leave a nice heap of missing seats in the senate, getting a majority would be much easier. Remove the filibuster and pack the courts with a fresh set of folks like KBJ.
While you’re at it, use the DOE to enforce radical a climate agenda that disrupts the power of oil. You could even use the climate emergency to justify massive reductions in military presence around the world, letting the military budget go towards jobs programs for local green development. They could actually follow leahy laws and cut all military aid to Israel.
I would have hoped from the Trump presidency, more folks would realize the rules are largely built on biased interpretations and that you can bias those in other directions to make the country better. Now maybe you think I am absurd in my views, but maybe we can compromise a bit further than spending months with websites and means testing to slowly roll out partial student debt relief while giving all the time in the world for the right to send court cases against it. Put simply a Trump of the left would have done the effective thing of simply abolishing the debt unilaterally and giving the courts the much more difficult task of reinstating debt, rather than moving slow enough that it’s stopped before it starts.
See you say the same shit as repulicans but thats literally what the post is about. Democrats were never going to repeal abortion rights or the voting rights acts.they were never going to start an oil crisis or a trade war and tank the economy the same way. They were never going to support ice the same way (they actually just held out on a partial government shutdown and exceeded my expectations in doing so). Saying that they do the same is a straight up lie. And I’m not saying dems are perfect. The bar is in hell. But they aren’t doing the same.
Roe v Wade was repealed under Biden
By republicans. Clearly you’ve never had a civics course or you wouldn’t say stupid shit that shows you don’t understand how the US federal government functions.
I’m well aware of how the US government functions, dipshit. You’re saying that because the results of your failed strategy are apparent.
Clearly you don’t.
You don’t ‘reinforce’ a law when there is established legal precedent because, there is legal precedent.
That’s like making more laws saying murder is illegal.
You accellerationists have such a chronic lack of understanding how this government functions.
You’re the only one bringing up an idea of “reinforcement”.
On the other hand, you do absolutely legislate law when abortion protections only had a SCOTUS case protecting them, especially since it was one that they’d been nibbling at for decades. Which is part of the reason that it’d been a topic for decades, and a campaign promise of Obama. One he decided later to just forget about.
It’s always funny to see the shitlibs show off the fantasy they construct to protect their sad worldview.
Look around at the US. This is your doing. You guys won. You drove the politics since the 90’s - and this is the result. None of this was a surprise to anyone but you.
I’m bringing up the correct terms here. When the supreme court decided something was legal there’s zero reason to reinforce those legal issues as they are settled law. Every conservative on the court also confirmed this was settled law during their confirmation hearings. They obviously lied. But you can’t legislate based off of Calvinball.
Oh fuck off dude. I’m a shit lib? You guys don’t even fucking vote during the primaries so your candidates never make the general elections. All people like you do is snipe on the sidelines and never participate.
People like you are literally why the left loses so goddamn always.
You’re really showing off that “understanding” too. Keep it up comrade.
The point is that Biden could’ve made it unrepealable, but didn’t
How? By what mechanism could he prevent the supreme court from overturning established legal understanding? Because that’s not a thing the president gets to do, like what the fuck are you even talking about?
Court packing, among others. Something the Democrats, who controlled both houses and the Presidency, chose not to do.
https://www.stevenslee.com/appellate/heeding-fdrs-cautionary-tale-biden-says-no-to-adding-supreme-court-justices/
That’s not something the president can do, that’s a power of Congress. Thank you for proving my point.
I’ll argue democract are ineffective to a fault, even ineffective in a weaponizable way to punish their consitutients for straying from the center. Again, the bar is in hell. But they did not repeal abortion rights directly and never would have.
No, they simply refused to do anything to stop the repeal, of course.
Why are you saying this like it conflicts with anything I’ve said?
I’m not. I’m saying the difference is meaningless in results though.
It’s not though. The Democrats are feckless. You’ll see them in the dictionary when looking up weaponized incompetence (OK that has a vaguely different meaning but you know what I mean). But if the right had never gained power, the momentum to lose these rights never would have begun.
Doing something =/= letting something happen
Donald acting unilaterally is not just a matter of a color map on the senate chart. It’s also a matter of a well-funded cult of worship that can never allow any dissonance.
Imagine a Democrat, in a majority, introduced a bill to make streets safer and add bike lanes. Imagine two Democratic senators rebutted “Hey, I don’t like that. I enjoy my F-150.” They probably wouldn’t be instantly kicked from the party and have their homes threatened to be burnt down. They’d have people gently try to negotiate with them.
On the other hand, let’s say a Democrat wanted a bigger change like jail time for use of a Nazi swastika, or the death penalty for ICE agents, or deploying troops to assist Ukraine. They wouldn’t really have a guarantee that every single senator in the Democratic aisle would stand against an impeachment action, because they don’t have that religious following; just general shared motives.
Democrats are allowed to disagree. It’s often a good premise that prevents all-out corruption or oligarchy, but it’s a notable weakness to account for when pushing landmark legislation off what people call a solid majority. Other comments have pointed out the original VRA passed with the help of Republicans because some Democrats stood against it.
Congrats on not being brown, or from a third world country
I am both brown and from a third world (both in the original unaligned sense and in the newer impoverished sense) country. You fucked us over with Trump.
The slaves didn’t care that Lincoln said in his debates with Douglas that whites were superior to blacks and that he supported an Illinois law against miscegenation. They cared that he removed them from bondage. Smart people take whatever progress they can get.
Republicans destroying USAID is expected to kill how many millions of brown people in third world countries? How many children unvaccinated and uneducated?
But both sides apparently are the same
USAID caused more damage than help, I am glad trump destroyed it, altho for the wrong reasons.
“Yay for more starving children, yippee!”
Ghoul.
Less debt traps, coups, lobbying, etc as well.
Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APLJle95iZI
Personally, I’m not seeing the us do less coups. Just weaker excuses for the coups they perform.
USAID killed more brown kids in third world countries than most US programs. It was built by the CIA to destabilize countries and foment dissidence towards unfriendly governments (that usually aren’t able to provide for their citizens because of US sanctions anyway). Let’s not pretend it is bad for the world that this is gone; it is just amazing there are no longer any intelligent republicans that understand US foreign policy and allowed it to go away.
Both sides aren’t as similar anymore, as in Republicans literally stopped paying attention to the intelligence community and what they do to project US military imperialist power across the world and accidentally are helping the rest of the world break free from US imperialism; but ‘both sides’ want the exact same thing, ones just no longer intelligent enough to hide it behind doublespeak.
Seriously pretending USAID was a good thing is like pretending the NED promotes democracy or the US has ever been the victim in any conflict.
Missed your username, naturally you think feeding the hungry is an evil CIA plot.
Not that you actually care about the lives of brown people in 3rd world countries except as a way to generate outrage, but 92 million lives saved is the estimate.
‘Feeding the hungry’ is an evil CIA plot when the US State department made them hungry.
And yes, as a brown person now in a 3rd world country (technically second world, but anything not white is third world to you people), I do care about the crimes the US does to the country I’ve been adopted into; including what USAID has done.
Pretending any thing the US has ever done has been done out of benevolence is, at best, pure willful ignorance. Ask someone in a country that has been affected by USAID why USAID was necessary sometime. Go on.
The US messed up most of Latin America. USAID makes things better. Removing USAID makes things worse. It doesn’t matter whether it is out of benevolence (the real reason is that making Latin America better means the US doesn’t have to deal with a migrant crisis). What matters is that it’s better than the alternative.
They don’t do it for benevolence. They do it for the soft power that appearing benevolent gives them. Fucked up motives but still a net positive.
Then maybe you shouldn’t keep using that language. You’re the one that introduced it during your first comment
Don’t need to trust them. You can trust the literal CIA when their staff says USAID helps them achieve in the open what they used to do covertly and thus freeing resources from the agency (to REALLY focus on the unspeakably evil shit)
no sane person agrees with democrats 70% of the time lmao, maybe like 25% at best
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Athens was a slave state that only allowed the men to vote.
Last time we had true democracy was probably before we did the whole agriculture thing
That’s an optimistic percentage, and yet still not an excuse to avoid voting for them.
If I know somebody who agrees with the Dems 70% of the time they’re basically the white dudes from Get Out.
Never change ml, never change. Mostly because you’re too myopic to be capable of it in the first place.
it is propaganda method by the right, like your vote doesnt matter. thats how we end up getting schumers and hakeems of the congress, when less people vote, more conservative candidates are elected, this includes the DINOs. maine is currently fighting with susan collins, mills and platner 2 of them are conservatives.
Let’s grant your premise. I don’t think if I had a friend who liked 70% of the same shit as me but I found out the other 30 they’re assaulting kids, killing minorities, sending money I gave them to genocidaires, doing unspeakable atrocities to ALL of the people outside our shared neighborhood, and being buddy buddy with the other dudes who do that shit 100% of the time, I would just not want to hang out with that guy.
Maybe I’m built different tho.
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Do you not care about GENOCIDE???
/s
So, actually that question though? Genocide used to be a really, really bad thing, and here you’re making light of it. I feel like people have lost the plot a bit if they talk about an actual genocide like this. “Yeah, sure they committed a bit of genocide, but have you seen the other guy?” I feel like I’m losing my mind
Yes, genocide is bad. You know what’s worse? MORE genocide. That’s what we got from people not voting because of it.
If you market yourself as being against fascism, maybe don’t vehemently support a different fascist regime and shout down anyone who questions it.
The fact that people like you are spending your energy getting pissy with the voters and not the fucking Democratic party who refused to change their stance is fucking insane.
surprise: I can hold two thoughts in my head at once
Thoughts, sure. You’ve chosen to spend your time attacking those who wanted change, not the ones who refused to not back the systemic murder of an entire people.
Priorities.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t realize I’m a different person.
The two thoughts I hold are “on election day, it’s self-gratifying not to vote for the outcome with the highest lows, raising the floor” and “before and after election day, do whatever you can to make the lives of politicians who fail miserable and support better candidates, up to and including civil unrest”
Not voting is categorically ineffective. There may be plenty of things more effective than voting, but not voting isn’t one of them.
People love to present this scenario like it’s a lever with three positions: candidate A, candidate B, or civil unrest. But it’s not. It’s one switch with two buttons (candidate a, candidate b) and another separate button for civil unrest. You can do both
We have had years of constant video footage of it happening. Being desensitized is bound to happen.
I don’t know what kind of person could look at parents being handed the remains of their child in plastic baggies and at any point in their life go “oh wow are they still going on about the genocide?”
That isn’t what they were saying tho.
No, no one is saying those words exactly. But I see the sentiment be expressed in threads like this over and over, and it just doesn’t compute.
The only ones making light of genocide are the ones who helped make more of it happen through their refusal to vote for harm reduction.
No, it’s the people like you who are going: people should have voted for some genocide to prevent more genocide, instead of saying something sane like: maybe the fucking Democrats shouldn’t have been promoting a fascist in Israel while running on being anti fascist
LIAR! Of fucking course the Democrats shouldn’t have been doing that! Nobody’s disputing that! You are inventing a false dichotomy out of thin fucking air!
Who’s lying? You, right here in this thread, are ragging on the voters. Not the genocide supporting Democrats who refused to stop supporting fascist Netanyahu.
You have decided to spend your energy not attacking the corrupt shitbags, but the people who are stuck STILL asking them to change their stance. What the fuck are you fighting for?
You are cherry-picking only the things I said in this thread to try to crucify me for being on-topic. That’s disingenuous bullshit and you fucking know it.
And besides that…
What part of “of fucking course the Democrats shouldn’t have been doing that” did you not understand? I did, in fact, criticize genocide-supporting Democrats right in the very comment you replied to!
And moreover, EVERY SINGLE OTHER COURSE OF ACTION SUPPORTED FASCIST NETANYAHU EVEN MORE.
I’m fighting for you to quit being delusional accelerationist dipshits who cause more genocide, among countless other catastrophes, through your sheer stupidity!
I ALSO fight for replacing the genocide-supporting Democrats with something better, IN OTHER TIMES AND CONTEXTS WHERE IT’S ACTUALLY APPROPRIATE! And fuck you for telling lies, falsely claiming I don’t!
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Genocide Joe!
Making sure the party that continually starts new wars in the Middle East gets elected will surely help my cause!
<Trump and Bibi plan a resort where Palestinians will be removed from their homes and likely largely killed>
“Yeah but you support GENOCIDE!”
You say ‘Genocide Joe!’ like he didn’t actually support and enthusiastically aid a genocide.
Good thing he wasn’t on the ballot then
No his VP was
Took 6 comments to loop right back around to the meme
Good thing the candidate that was on the ballot wasn’t associated with him or his administration in any way and also vigorously denounced genocide at every opportunity! Right? … right??
Right, Harris sucked. So glad I didn’t vote and Trump won instead. That has worked out so much better for Iran and the rest of the world, too. Could you imagine even trying to justify voting in the last election?!?!
Oops, that damn goalpost keeps moving around! Better tie it down!
the goal post has never moved from “try to leave the world better because of me or worse in spite of me, rather than better in spite of me or worse because of me”
It’s okay to admit if you made a mistake, it actually shows human growth when you can recognize that maybe the right course of action wasn’t taken.
What goalpost? The goal is to make things better than other alternatives. Harris was better than Trump. It was a choice between the two. It’s very simple. How do people not get that?
More like supported and slightly reluctantly aided.
I expect there were guardrails that Israel was careful not to cross. You know, like completely flattening Gaza and demolishing southern Lebanon.
It’s still AIPAC fueled genocide, but I definitely preferred the slower version to what we have now.
“If it hadn’t been for Genocide Joe, I’d been married long time 'go…”
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Yes. We must bring genocide to the U.S. and maintain the genocides overseas!
It must be so nice having worldviews that can be fully encapsulated by trolley memes
Well first you gotta gimme an example of one that wouldn’t fit.
I guess the view that I want to articulate could be represented as a trolley meme with the following changes:
If I try to simplify these changes, though, then maybe I could depict my view a bit like this?
But hey, that’s just theory…
GAME THEORY
Ngl I seen trolly memes set up like this before :p
Perhaps I should have said “worldviews that can be encapsulated by single-junction trolley memes”, lol
Either way, you gotta have your hand on the lever!
Yes, despite my sassiness towards you in this thread this is a true and wise observation that goes ignored too often. My disagreements are not pertaining to the idea of inaction constituting action
No worries, I would 100% prefer the proverbial third track, but it isn’t connected yet. In the meantime, I’ll have extreme disdain for the jackasses standing around moralizing while the train is actively running people over.
Political power is gained via votes! Vote! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Can you explain this to me like I’m dumb? Cause I am. Is this making fun of the people who choose someone who’s literally not connected to the track?
Needs to be updated to add the Iranian flag to the GOP track. Man, do I wish there were a realistic way to choose that bottom track!
it’s simple, you just don’t vote for the genocidal warmonger party, then if enough people do that you win
blowing up/ derailing the trolly also works
And there’s no viable way to do that under the current system, which is why the track isn’t connected.
i love how you concede that the system is so dysfunctional you can’t even oppose a genocide under it and simultaneously expect me to to believe that individuals voting (or not) is somehow making a meaningful difference in the outcome
THAT’S NOT HOW VOTING WORKS!
People have to vote FOR the OTHER party, or else the genocidal warmonger party wins anyway!
You are saying shit that is both moronic and factually untrue.
you know there’s a non-genocidal warmonger party which could also be voted for.
I voted for them last election and don’t regret it
No there fucking wasn’t! Not one that could win! You’re a goddamned liar and you are helping the fascists!
there’s no way anyone could help the fascists more than an ‘opposition’ party which routinely fails to actually oppose them
if the democrats had any principles and actually opposed fascism they wouldn’t spend so much time punching left
funnything in rick and morty, the very same episode supernova says"what is is-rayel" referring to israel, rick and morty and FAMILY guy are 1 of the 2 shows that poke fun of the ridiculous of hte gaza/palestine conflict.
i’m somewhat of a centrist so i think it’s gotta be somewhere between these two:
Those are both encapsulated at the bottom of the meme!
i mean not really, it’s not out of moralism that i choose not to vote for genocidal warmonger red/blue, in fact the moralism is thinking voting for genocidaires is ‘pragmatic’. not to mention continuing to votescold people over a year later lmao
organizing outside electoralism builds actual power. voting for slightly different managers of the same bloodthirsty war machine doesn’t
While organizing outside electoralism is great, electoralism is still the primary way power is apportioned in this country. Abandoning electoralism is ceding power to people who will use it for evil.
The stakes are the future of the world.
if the ‘future of the world’ hinges on genociding an expendible out-group and the system is powerless to change that, then i choose to walk away from omelas
Congratulations on standing by your principles instead of by your morals.
Voting for neither is the same as voting for both.
if voting for neither is the same voting for both, then can we formally acknowledge that my vote makes zero difference and maybe people can stop votescolding?
No, because voting for one is not the same as voting for neither/both.
Voting for the perfect candidate > voting for A > not voting > voting for B
The perfect candidate didn’t exist, but instead of choosing the second best option, you chose the third best option, and we ended up with the worst option because a lot of people did what you did. Thanks a bunch.
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Wait, who does the left want to die?
Um, the right obviously! I want everyone on the opposite side to die so obviously the other side must feel the same!
Genuinely hard to not be black pilled by this constant bullshit like as if there are genuinely elected officials making comments about “MAGA hunting” or some shit. Literally only one side wants to eat the other. One wants death the other wants brunch. Fucking hell.
They want me dead… I want them to have single payer healthcare.
No I absolutely want fascists to die. A world where we allow fascists to live is a world that will fall to fascism, because fascists don’t play by the same rules as the rest of us.
Yeah. I get the SPIRIT of the idea, but MAGA has committed WAY more than enough heinous crimes where I’d ACCEPT them being thrown of out power, but in my heart of hearts on my extended wishlist I’d like to see them all drawn and quartered.
Hell yeah, like most authority, do as I say not as I do is huge with orange dingleberry and his bootlickers.
Nazis, slavers, and unrepentant pedophiles mostly.
So nobody important, got it.
Au contraire, for example any and every member of Congress fits the description.
That might be a bit hyperbolic.
Bernie Sanders has his faults, for sure, but I don’t think he’s a nazi, a slaver, or an unrepentant pedophile.
So nobody important, got it.
I mean I see conservatives say it all the time they believe liberals want them dead. Like nah just dont be fucking assholes and pedophiles lol
Mostly it’s, GTFO of my personal life that doesn’t affect you. Practice some of that liberty you like to pay lip service too. Admit there is a gun proliferation issue and address it.
It’s always projection. The right is happy to murder death kill (see slavery) so they assume everyone else is too.
Plenty of them do. People like tucker Carlson and Alex Jones have audiences. And for God’s sake /r/conservative, and practically all of reddit is a conservative hatefest now.
Edit: nevermind, I misunderstood this comment originally.
Fascists.
I’m fine with them not being fascists anymore. But yeah, if they refuse, fair point.
Adapting to the level of discourse here: the left wants successful and lucky people to die
Just when they don’t pay their fair share and/or use their wealth to buy legislation.