• Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    30
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    6 hours ago

    Everyone deserves to be treated exactly the way they treat others.

    So be racist to racists. Throw homophobes on the street. Exploit the rich. And kill all Nazis.

    And if they can’t handle that, then that is on them. It is the most neutral view you can have of the world.

    • exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      4 hours ago

      The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

      A system of fair rules does not always lead to fair outcomes, if the rules don’t accommodate the asymmetry in capacity, motivation, resources, etc.

    • wpb@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      5 hours ago

      Blatant flaw in this: I don’t want to murder anyone. I don’t want to rape anyone. I don’t want to be racist to anyone (though I acknowledge I am). And the moment I would do something like that to anyone, I would be a murderer or a rapist, and that’s a shitty thing to be. So no thanks.

        • plyth@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          42 minutes ago

          An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

          Exactly not. An eye for an eye ended the custom of escalating feuds. If only one eye can be taken in revenge, then all other eyes stay healthy.

          It only continues if a taken eye is seen as unjust which leads to a chain of mutually unjustly taken eyes. But that’s a slow process so the elders may figure something out while it happens.

        • MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 hours ago

          I understand what that is supposed to mean, but it makes no sense. I have never taken anybody’s eyeball so if that was the law of the land, I would feel pretty safe. Eventually, everyone going around taking eyeballs would have no eyes and they would be much less likely to be able to take more, at least without some assistance I imagine.

          Plenty of places have a “death for a death” law where if you kill someone you can be put to death. I’m against the death penalty personally, but that has never really been of personal concern to me since I don’t go around murdering.

          If you take something from someone, should they not be able to take it back from you? If you steal $1000, do I just have to sit there? I should be entitled to take $1000 back. If anything, I should also potentially be entitled to more.

          While for an eye is not my preference, it was used to make people as whole as possible and was considered an improvement at the time.

  • DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    5 hours ago

    Been a while since I watched Death Note, but did Light brutally murder people? I thought it was mostly heart attacks, which was the default way for someone to die unless otherwise specified.

    • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      53 minutes ago

      Even if he hadn’t caused a variety of deaths in a variety of ways, I think causing a variety of heart attacks still counts as brutally murdering people

      • DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        50 minutes ago

        I’ve never had a heart attack so idk how to gauge if it’s a brutal way to die or not. I’ll assume it’s not the best way to go lol

    • andros_rex@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      4 hours ago

      The elaborate bus jacking was pretty violent. I think he also had some prisoners do things like write messages in their own blood when he was testing the notebook out.

  • blindbunny@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    11
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    6 hours ago

    I feel this way about cops, land lords and billionaires. Tbf tho if those didn’t exist the world would be a much better place.

  • D_C@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    34
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    9 hours ago

    I’ll allow you to call me bad if I’m also allowed to drop billionaires, the trillionaire, selected world leaders, and most of the Epstein class in to a woodchipper. It only seems fair.

    • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 hour ago

      What is more important: considering yourself a good person, or materially benefiting the world?

      I’ll take option 2, thanks. Woodchippers! GET YOUR WOODCHIPPERS HERE!!

  • makeshift0546@lemmy.today
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    79
    arrow-down
    10
    ·
    edit-2
    11 hours ago

    Fuck this noise. Kill Nazis and fascists.

    Try them in court, convict, and then line them up with their families watching and shoot them in the face and make it required viewing for every kid on the planet.

    • Rooskie91@discuss.online
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      6 hours ago

      Hey now! Just look at history and you’ll see how often non-violence works! Like for instance checks notes …uh oh frantically flipping through notes guys, oh no!

    • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      26
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      8 hours ago

      So much for the tolerant left…

      Motherfuckers, you labeled me as tolerant because I don’t hate people for immutable characteristics they were born with. That doesn’t mean I’m tolerant of nazis maga traitors.

    • TrackinDaKraken@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      4 hours ago

      A trial with due process is key. But, they’d need to be kicked out of power, first. Somehow. Because Nazis won’t convict Nazis, obviously.

      I’m not looking forward to what happens if they steal the mid-terms.

    • Agent641@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      51
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      9 hours ago

      “So MuCh FoR tHe ToLeRaNt LeFt!!”

      Pictured: Antifa social group, North Africa club, 1943, being as tolerant as they can

    • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      35
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      11 hours ago

      And if they don’t like this, there’s always the super easily, highly convenient solution of NOT BEING A NAZI.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 hours ago

      But we must always focus on our goal of minimizing suffering. The path to evil comes when we focus more on us vs them and hurting the enemy than we are on building a better world. Fetishization of violence is a dangerous path.

      I lament that I believe that violence and public executions are necessary, but I do. But I also don’t believe it’s sufficient. We must also build a better world.

  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    44
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    12 hours ago

    Quite a severe lack of intellectual rigour is going on there. If nothing happens to bad people then they’ll keep being bad people. The difference between the bad people and the good people is that the bad people do bad things because they like it. Good people do bad things to stop bad people from being bad people doing bad things.

    If you let the bad people do bad things because you’re a good person and as a good person you don’t do bad things then the bad things may as well be done by the good people. It’s all the same.

    • nodiratime@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      8 hours ago

      Light went after people in the prison system or suspected of being criminals, without ever doubting the justness of the system in any way. He is useful idiot, delusional agent of the system or megalomaniacal bootlicker. Choose your pick.

        • Jomega@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          7 hours ago

          Ryuk was pretty hands off throughout the whole thing. He kind of just sat there and basked in the spectacle. Hell, there were points where he was shocked a human was even capable of going as far as Light did.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          7 hours ago

          The “trickster demon” who in episode 1 hears Light’s plan and responds, “If you do that, you’ll be the only bad guy left?”

          Ryuk didn’t make him do shit, he was just in it for the apples.

        • nodiratime@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          7 hours ago

          Maybe I missed that (I watched it twice), but to me it appeared very much so that he had (except after the intricate swaps, which erased his memory) full agency, and was the one pushing the limits/boundaries of the mechanic.

          Of course one can make the point that power corrupts etc., and the Shinigamis are attached to that power. In a way, they embody power and could be seen as the corrupting force, but that is as far as I would take that. At least Riuk was emotionally detached/had no real stake in it. I don’t recall him ever endorsing or driving him to persue his mission. Maybe his subdued admiration of Lights “shenanigans” can be seen as adding fuel to the his (ego) fire, but that also is a defect Light has had before, not instilled by Riuk.

          • Art3mis@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            7 hours ago

            I just always took his “admiration” as a subtle nod to the darker forces at play. Like he isnt directly telling him to do it but he is definitely feeding off of it in a sense and lightly encourages it. Its not blatant. I always took the apples to be that kind of metaphor

    • rarWars@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 hours ago

      Ok, but you do realize you can punish someone without killing, right? It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Bad people can be prevented from doing more bad things without any blood being shed.

      • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        3 hours ago

        You can try but look what happened when we didn’t finish off the slavers and the Nazis. They linger on until an orange shitstain comes along and empowers them.

    • Senal@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      9 hours ago

      The problem with most things that use good and bad as a foundation is that they never account for perspective.

      Good and bad are made up and subjective.

      If you don’t account for that in your positions then you’re setting yourself up for fundamentalism.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        8 hours ago

        Absolutely I am merely responding with the same level of intellectualism as the original comment.

        If we can’t even get as far as sometimes violence is necessary and absolutism is a useless philosophy, then there’s no point getting into nuance.

      • edible_funk@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 hours ago

        I don’t think good and bad are that subjective. You can get into the weeds but it can be pretty well boiled down to “treat others the way you want them to treat you” is good and “treat others in a way you wouldn’t want them to treat you” is bad. We’re social creatures, we have to live in societies, and it’s not difficult to determine pro social vs anti social behaviors.

        • Senal@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          6 hours ago

          “One persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter” is a concise way that the goodness or badness of an actions or outcomes is filtered through the subjective lens of the whoever happens to be considering the topic.

          On an individual level, “don’t be a dick” is a pretty useful guideline , but even that is subject to what each person thinks constitutes dickish behaviour.

          We’re social creatures, we have to live in societies, and it’s not difficult to determine pro social vs anti social behaviors.

          Even that is subjective, think about what is socially acceptable in Finland?, how about Russia?, Morocco? France?

          Do they all have the same idea of socially acceptable behaviours?

          How about now vs 50 years ago? 100 years ago? 200 years in the future?.

          Sure, there are some that are fairly common, but i wouldn’t consider those to be of a sufficient percentage of the whole that i could disregard behvaioural subjectivity, but that’s just my opinion.

      • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        9 hours ago

        That whole idea is poorly thought out. In the split second of danger presented in the situation where a good guy with a gun could stop something, no one has any idea what is happening or why or to who and the decision must be made in seconds. No wonder good guy with gun doesn’t just start blasting. If their goal is to not hurt good people, blasting away is a good way to hurt Innocents.

        Not to mention, people don’t like getting shot themselves.

    • cøre@leminal.space
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      9 hours ago

      What is good or bad? Whats bad on one side is good on the other. Both sides are good with the other side bad, from their point of view. With no objective good or bad, neither is, and morality means nothing so you can do anything with a clear conscience.

      • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        8 hours ago

        With no objective good or bad

        Where do pedophilia and rape fall in your intellectually lazy, moral relativism argument? What about freeing enslaved people?

        Saying there is no objective good or bad only shows your lack of moral convictions.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        8 hours ago

        Sorry but that’s irrelevant. Who personally views themselves as good and bad isn’t relevant to how I apply your logic from my perspective.

        The danger comes in thinking that everything you do is good simply because you do it.

        You shouldn’t hurt people if you don’t have to but that’s not the same as saying that violence should be avoided at all costs and that it’s never useful, or even ultimately the lesser evil.

        I have a problem with these absolutists the tried to suggest that the situation should never be taken into account and that violence is always bad. It’s intellectually dishonest and it’s naive.

  • AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    34
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    13 hours ago

    I mean, I know we should not generalize, but the Epstein class are bad people who deserve to be murdered in awful suffering.

    It’s rare to see someone wno is evil without a doubt, but anyone from the Epstein class is one.

    • FishFace@piefed.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      12 hours ago

      Who are “the Epstein class”? Just Epstein and Ghislaine? Just the rapists? Everyone in the files?

      Seems like, whatever the punishment, you still need a process to determine guilt according to the evidence, rather than trial by public opinion.

      • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        9 hours ago

        I’ll settle for “anyone accused of any wrongdoing in the Epstein files in any manner.”

        We can sort through the gritty details afterwards and apologize to the single person that was wrongly accused.

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          8 hours ago

          Can’t apologize to someone you murdered (their words).

          Call me crazy, but I don’t think being accused of a crime should be enough for a death sentence.

          • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            5 hours ago

            In any other circumstance I would agree with you. This about the survival of the species. This isn’t a normal bad government structure that needs to be rooted out. This isn’t the same oppression that we’ve been dealing with for thousands of years. The people in that list are specifically the most powerful and untouchable people that have ever lived and they are ACTIVELY MURDERING THE PLANET FOR THEIR OWN PLEASURE. This isn’t something that can wait for the normal process to take it’s time. If we don’t act this minute, we will be too late. It’s quite likely that we are already too late.

        • FishFace@piefed.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          9 hours ago

          I’m sure that apology will do a lot of good to them after they’re dead.

          Me, I’ll be over here standing up for the rule of law instead of “just kill whoever is accused in a particular set of documents”.

          • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            9 hours ago

            In a normal situation, I would agree with you that we should follow the rule of law. But there is simply no time to beat around the bush for a few decades sorting through all the docs and having trials for everyone involved when everyone involved OWNS THE JUDGES. the system must change before we can achieve justice, and there is no way to change that system through the legal system.

      • TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        11 hours ago

        I dunno just making a list for people that are apologetic about it, positive towards it, partial to the acts or on the receiving end of a cashflow would be just insta killable if I was suddenly dictator of the world

    • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      45
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      14 hours ago

      Unpopular opinion:
      Universal human rights apply to all humans, including Nazis.
      Dehumanizing people and denying them their human rights is what Nazis do.

      • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        9 hours ago

        “Universal” human rights can be forfeited by the individual by attempting to restrict another’s rights.

        Done and done.

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        30
        ·
        edit-2
        12 hours ago

        Nazis do have human rights. Including the right to be punished for their actions. Just like everyone else.

        But if the governments don’t punish them for their actions then don’t be surprised if people take matters into their own hands. Which again, would happened to any group of people that were perceived as having too much power and being given too much leeway by the government, regardless of political beliefs.

        • tabarnaski@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          27 minutes ago

          A right is something you can claim for yourself. “Being punished for your actions” is not a right. I’d even argue that, from a political/social standpoint, punishment shouldn’t be the goal: at a minimum, we should seek to reeducate, and if that fails, isolation is the way to go.

          That being said, at the individual level, I wholeheartedly condone the punching of nazis.

        • Sarah Valentine (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          8 hours ago

          I find it amazing that you’re seriously advising people to fight the foot soldiers to no end instead of, you know, the handful of people in that “government” who are responsible for enabling them. The people with the wealth, influence, and technology to rig elections, make enemies and evidence disappear, controvert the law with impunity, and psychologically manipulate the masses.

          But yeah fuck it, let’s just stay mad at Bubba on Facebook with a room temp IQ. I’m sure Sun Tzu would be proud.

          • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            3 hours ago

            You see the problem here is you’ve decided what I’m arguing and suggesting people do, rather than actually reading my comment. I don’t think I’ve ever stated anywhere that you can’t apply any of what I’ve said to politicians rich CEOs and anybody else who’s at it.

            But there is a very important distinction to be made between the people who are actually hurting people and the people who are using them, because the people who are using them won’t do anything on their own, they need their foot soldiers as you call them. Diminish their foot soldiers and you diminish their power too, it’s all one thing. I’m pretty sure Sun Tzu probably has something to say about actually killing your enemies soldiers being worthwhile objective.

            • But there is a very important distinction to be made between the people who are actually hurting people and the people who are using them, because the people who are using them won’t do anything on their own, they need their foot soldiers as you call them. Diminish their foot soldiers and you diminish their power too, it’s all one thing.

              Again, hilarious. You’ve talked yourself out of correctness and into victim blaming. Congratulations, you’re no better than them for the good of all mankind. Toodles.

              • MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 hour ago

                I’m confused as to what your suggestion is. Do you think people who are “just followingorders” should not be held accountable for their actions because they were not the ones issuing the orders?

        • Zwiebel@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          11 hours ago

          Read some of the other comments here, happily wanting to take nazis human rights

          • edible_funk@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            8
            ·
            8 hours ago

            By virtue of being nazis they have forfeited the protections of the social contract. I don’t give a fuck about the dehumanization or human rights angle, when a thing exists for the sole purpose of destroying society (like nazism and any supremacism) you remove it by any means necessary from society. You do not allow it to continue because if you do, it will destroy you. Fascism is an existential threat and killing fascists is always self defense.

            • Sarah Valentine (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              5 hours ago

              A Nazi may “die” through ceasing to hold to Nazi ideals, and striving to better themselves. Many strong fighters for good causes began their fight on the wrong side. I can’t imagine how much worse the world would be if, historically, such people had been killed out of hand as you suggest would be right.

              • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 hours ago

                You do get no ones actually killing them.

                We’re giving them a good kicking but they walk away with no broken bones, no concussion, and certainly with all their organs still functioning. For the most part these guys are cowards, you don’t need to kill them to stop them, you just need to make them experience mild discomfort.

                It’s the right that love to kill each other.

                Although I have to ask, do you seriously think that these people have anything to contribute to society. For the most part they think the way they do because they are ill-educated woth the world horizon been about 50 miles away from their own house. They’ve never met the people they hate, they’ve never been to their country, these people have never experienced the suffering of war or famine, and because of that they can’t imagine it. I don’t think society is being denied the next Nobel laureate just because it is intolerant of racists.

          • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            edit-2
            11 hours ago

            The right have it so easy. They are all united together as one group of racist assholes.

            The left after deal with a bunch of fence sitters that never want to do anything, who generally just hope that the situation magically resolves itself on its own. Any suggestion by anyone that maybe it would be a good idea to perhaps do something, is always meant with pushback.

      • desra@lemmy.vg
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        12 hours ago

        I’ll agree this should be an unpopular opinion. When they deny the rights of others, they forfeit their own.

        Society is generally based on social contracts regarding human decency, respect and what apparently are more extreme ideas like compassion and empathy. It’s an agreement to be a part of a community, not to exploit it for selfish gain. If they want to do that, at the very least they should be exiled and allowed only care about themselves by themselves.

        We need to stop tolerating intolerance. If you’re harmful to our species letalone our planet that we share with so many others, part present and future, ostracize or eradicate. This high road shit has gotten use nowhere in the entirety of our planets history but right here where monsters are allowed and encouraged to reign.

        I’ll also agree to step up to the chopping block if it means I take some of these assholes to hell hand in hand with me.

        • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          22
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          edit-2
          12 hours ago

          Granting someone human rights IS NOT tolerance.
          And it’s not high road shit.

          When Nazis attack your state with an army, shoot them in defense.
          When they attack your society, arrest them, give them a trial, lock them up and seize all assets they used.
          Inestigate their support network and shut that down. Ban Nazi parties, clubs and groups.
          Also, fund organisations that help people trying to get out of the Nazi community.

          The problem we have isn’t that those measures aren’t enough.
          It’s that we don’t even do those things, because our politicians are actually in league with them or afraid of them.

          • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            7 hours ago

            When they attack your society, arrest them, give them a trial, lock them up and seize all assets they used.
            Inestigate their support network and shut that down. Ban Nazi parties, clubs and groups.

            This. Does. Not. Work.

          • DarthFrodo@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            7 hours ago

            Does that mean that from your perspective, the US shouldn’t have attacked and defeated the Nazis in WW2 and should have allowed them to stay in power and do their thing instead?

            This kinda seems like preferring to sacrifice the human rights of the innocent, to protect the human rights of their murderers.

            • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              6 hours ago

              Welcome to the uncomfortable morality of international relations, where you may be able to stop some evil people, but the costs may involve extreme human suffering and you may not be able to stop them.

              Attacking nazi Germany is one end of the spectrum, in retrospect it was an easy choice. The Iraq war is on the other end, it went quite poorly and the internal motivations were tainted. The US war in Afghanistan is up there with it. And there’s a lot of gray areas, like theoretically attacking Myanmar today or the bombing campaign that contributed to the fall of Ghaddafi.

              • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                3 hours ago

                I don’t think anybody is actually suggesting that the Iraq war for example was moral so I’m not quite sure what your point is.

                • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  3 hours ago

                  At the time people were absolutely trying to frame it partially in moral terms. It’s the other end of the spectrum, an intervention with some intended moral aim (to stop the attacks on the Iraqi Kurds) that’s now nearly universally understood to not have been moral.

          • Shanmugha@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            12 hours ago

            Granting someone human rights IS NOT tolerance

            It IS bullshit. No one ever is born with the notion of human rights and all the crap, but some creatures are born human nonetheless. Which is why

            And it’s not high road shit

            It actually is. I can agree not to kill someone unless they have killed or caused comparable harm, but not after. Once someone has breached social contract of decent treatment of others - they are not protected by it in my eyes anymore. Yes, it makes me capable of terrible things. No, I am not giving up that capability just for an idea that “I am good and civilized, unlike others”

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              7 hours ago

              No one ever is born with the notion of human rights and all the crap, but some creatures are born human nonetheless.

              Nobody is born racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, and fascist either.

            • Zwiebel@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              11 hours ago

              No one ever is born with the notion of human rights and all the crap

              Maybe not in your country, but here in Germany people are in fact born with human rights, including notably the right to live.

              Which, funnily, both the human rights declaration and the German constitution where written right after the nazi reign, by people who knew better than you and me what fashism can do.

              • Shanmugha@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                11 hours ago

                You did not get what I said, but I am willing to help you this time:

                know of people who happen to be raised outside of society, e.g. in jungles? Can’t talk to them about rights and stuff, but human they are. Also, you and me on our day 1 on this planet: did any of us open our eyes and think “hey, I have rights” ?

              • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                3 hours ago

                Are you seriously suggesting that merely pointing to someone and going this guy’s a Nazi would immediately result in a beating? Come on that’s an intellectually dishonest arguement and you know it, that is absolutely not happening no one is doing that.

                What’s happening is the Nazis are ousting themselves. They provide their own evidence. They film themselves doing this stuff, rioting, setting fire to buildings, weaving misspelt banners around. They are pointing the finger at themselves.

                No one attacks people without evidence. Look at Trump, every time Mr tiny hands doesn’t like somebody he accuses them of being a fascist, without knowing what the word means. But it’s utterly irrelevant because no one believes him.

              • edible_funk@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                8 hours ago

                How so? It’s not like we’re being manipulated into thinking people that aren’t nazis are. We’re watching them openly do nazi shit, we’re watching seig heils at the inauguration, we’re seeing literally nazi playbook shit, again all out in the open. Nobody is telling us this is nazi shit, we’re just seeing it for what it is. How can that be used nefariously? There’s no fox news equivalent manipulating the masses of the left, we’re just informed enough to see a spade for a fuckin spade. So tell me exactly how that can make me susceptible to do inhumane things based on false information. Be specific.

              • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                9
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 hour ago

                This argument just destroyed all of the plans of civilized man. WE ARE RUINED! at any moment we could be deceived! Let’s all lie down in the dirt and cry until we die.

              • Shanmugha@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                11 hours ago

                Yes, and unless I am inhumane myself that will go on to hunt haunt me long after the fact. This knife cuts both ways

      • TheparishofChigwell@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        11 hours ago

        It is sad for us to have to go through such trauma but violently murdering fascists is not dehumanizing. We are honouring them by believing the true extent of their evil, respecting their decision by reacting truthful to reality. It’s inhumane to let such sick individuals believe they might be right, when they believe in power being absolute. Natural order is what they want, why deny them?

      • s@piefed.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        11 hours ago

        Trolley problem — save the human rights of billions by sacrificing the human rights of the few who want to tie all of these people to the trolley tracks

          • edible_funk@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            8 hours ago

            Listen, you don’t convert a nazi. Some can come out of it on their own when the right support is present, but here’s the thing: I’m not obligated to help someone who’s ideology expressly wishes for my death. Until they’re not a nazi by both their own and others metrics they’re an existential threat that should be eliminated with extreme prejudice by any means possible. If that’s reeducation, fine, but that largely doesn’t work. When something is actively trying to kill you right now, today, then you fucking kill it back. Especially when it’s trying to kill you because your skin is darker or you’re queer or your junk doesn’t match your gender. I’ll stop wanting them dead when they stop wanting me dead.

          • s@piefed.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            11 hours ago

            What is your method to eliminating the active concentration camps posthaste?

        • FishFace@piefed.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          12 hours ago

          If you push back on “punch a nazi” you’ll find how unpopular it is quite quickly

          • Zwiebel@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            11 hours ago

            We are pushing back on “kill everyone accused of being a nazi”.

            • gurty@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              3 hours ago

              And in doing so, I have been accused of being a nazi in this thread, ergo I should apparently be shot and killed. I came here to escape reddit but I think I made a mistake.

            • FishFace@piefed.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              11 hours ago

              So you see how the OP’s caption didn’t mention anything about mere accusations, and implicitly assumed that the speaker could discern good from evil? And we then had to point out that in practice it’s accusations, not objective fact?

              And do you see how the person at the top of this comment chain started at the basis of fundamental human rights, which not include the right to life, but also the right not to be assaulted?

              So, the difference you are seeing is not a meaningful one.

        • Pommes_für_dein_Balg@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          12 hours ago

          Without context, it isn’t.
          As soon as I post it in a thread about Nazis doing Nazi shit, I get downvoted to hell.
          Same with my anti-war stance.

          • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            7 hours ago

            As soon as I post it in a thread about Nazis doing Nazi shit, I get downvoted to hell.

            Gee, I wonder why

          • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            12 hours ago

            Context is critical though. Often times I see people say things like “we shouldn’t stoop to their levels” which, like yeah, we shouldn’t have to.

              • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                11 hours ago

                It doesn’t have to, but things have been allowed to get too far out of control, the political left have not pushed back enough and now we’ve got people doing nazi salutes out in the open. We are past the point of being able to deal with this to the legal system because the legal system has been co-opted.

                I don’t know what people like you want. How do you want this situation resolving because all you ever say is what you don’t want, you don’t want violence, okay fine so how do you want to proceed?

                • Lmao why do you think there are corpses filling it?

                  they’re too busy playing by the rules and getting killed with nobody caring, because “we’re better than all that” is a dumb notion that ultimately makes you a pushover that wouldn’t pull the trigger to save 1000 people.

      • ButteredBread@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        13 hours ago

        Not that I don’t agree but if I was a nazi i would prefer to die anyways. Even if I didn’t get killed my cellmates would probs kill me unless im isolated which is… even worse. Besides if I ever realized how messed up that was i would probs kill myself but idk how likely that is.

    • gurty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      29
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      14 hours ago

      “Everyone I don’t agree with is a nazi therefore I am justified”

          • gurty@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            9 hours ago

            And should be on the receiving end.
            But I’ve seen people called nazis for extremely trivial things too, and that is the concern there. Punch people because they are nazis. Do not call people nazis so that you can punch them.

              • gurty@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                4 hours ago

                Took me two seconds to bring up an article on a man with allopecia being accused of being a far-right skinhead. Took me two more seconds to find an article where a man with Asperger’s recieved a torrent of false nazi accusations.
                When someone is openly saying ‘punch actual nazis’ try not being disingenuous with them mate, its fucking clown behaviour.

          • Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            4 hours ago

            And who issued that card, some sort of authorizing individual or regulatory organization? Sounds suspiciously heirarchal lol

            • gurty@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              3 hours ago

              Oh, so you are just a wanker. No worries, enjoy sending the replies I won’t read.

      • bizarroland@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        13 hours ago

        Which is funny because if people listened to what you said and followed your instructions, then there literally would be no critical thinking here. Whereas if you choose to utilize critical thinking, you would not actually dismiss this thing entirely simply because it came from Tumblr because that is a logical fallacy called poisoning the well.

        And if all it took to stop critical thinking for anybody was just saying, oh it comes from a bad place, then nobody would ever really do any critical thinking, right?

        So let’s ignore where it comes from and talk about the topic that’s actually being presented, ok?

  • root@lemmy.wtf
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    14 hours ago

    I think we should defend ourselves against the bourgeouise 🙋