Honest question, what is acab about? Because in my mind you need someone to upkeep the law otherwise how do you deal with criminals? I’m probably just naive I suppose.
I don’t want to imply that older systems were superior, just wanted to point out historical alternatives. Saying this beforehand because I noticed that the way I talk makes people think I’m endorsing stuff I’m not.
For most of human history there was no such thing as an institutionalized state police force, and yet law and order existed for millennia. To over simplify, you would have multiple powers that would try to mediate (or fight). As an example, in medieval Europe you’d have a local lord, guilds and the church, all with some form of guards to represent their interests. And you as an individual would likely belong to such a community. Also specifically the church would go out of its way to mediate problems of other people and prevent issues before they arise, both as community building and power projection (obviously).
The police of today are mainly here to protect property and maintain the status quo, they try to act like mediators, but in such conflicts they mainly come to pacify you so someone else can handle you. Personally my main issue is that we pretend like they’re much more than a civil suppression force. Like for some reason cops are still the main way states handle suicidal people, like jesus christ…
A good cop wouldn’t tolerate the kind of systemic abuse you see in the states, and as a result, would be fired as the institution protects the abusers. All thats left is bastards
But surely, if every good cop quits - leaving only bad cops in the police - that’s not a desirable result, is it? Shouldn’t good cops try to find ways to make all the bad cops quit, ultimately leading to a police that we could actually call good?
The problem with the police system in the USA is that it exists to protect capital, not to protect the people. The purpose of the police, as it currently exists, is to keep the lower classes in line. This is why the rich get away with most things. Even if a billionaire does get pulled over for speeding the fine isn’t even 1% of their income. More likely they won’t even be punished at all. Most people who genuinely want to help others either leave or get pushed out once they realize they’re only hurting the little guys. When people say acab or defund the police, they’re not saying that we shouldn’t have anyone to call, but they’re saying that we have to completely rebuild that necessary service. We need to take a completely different approach. Rather than sending in officers armed to the teeth into neighborhoods and communities they’re not a part of, we need to send people trained in de-escalation to their own communities (so that they’re actually invested in the well-being of their own community). Obviously there will be times when force is necessary, but the majority of the time, police officers don’t need a gun to give someone a speeding ticket or respond to a noise complaint. Also there’s a severe lack of accountability and punishment for bad cops which just encourages them to keep being bad and get worse, which is part of why we have such widespread, blatant corruption and police gangs
Tl;dr it’s a systemic issue that rewards bad behavior so good people either leave on their own or get forced out bc the system itself is rotten
the american police system is sufficiently rotten that there’s no realistic way to fix it, it needs to be completely dismantled and remade from the ground up.
If all good cops quit it would barely even be noticed.
I very much disagree, but I also don’t live in the USA. I think this is USA-specific. I hope.
The UK police has me pretty freaked out lately too.
German cops can be bastards as well, but at least they won’t “accidentally” shoot you.
I’m Australian so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
LPT: good cops are actually hired every year, in a specific date. Bastards in the other days.
That date is the 30th of February, by the way.
Wait wasn’t there a year where they had to add two leap days or was that two leap seconds
No such thing as far as I know.
oh wait i know what i was thinking
Not gonna lie, you had me in the first half!
Oh, so now the tolerant left hates an equitable workplace? /s
Not sure if this cross-posted correctly or not, but come join us at !acab@quokk.au if you want an anti-police community that’s not moderated by the notorious JordanLund! 😊
It’s okay to say they’re better off dead, this is what they do to Fred Hampton’s grave.
For fuck’s sake was killing him not enough?
I know it wasn’t, and it won’t be for them either.
Dr. Seuss got kinda dark in the later days
So a good cop should quit instead of turning in the bad cops? Which would effectively just be ignoring the problem and solve nothing.
One might wonder where all the supposed good cops reporting bad cops are then? 🧐
Few and far between, admittedly.
Doesn’t that seem like maybe there aren’t actually any good cops currently on the force?
No. And I’ll explain— I personally know a few good cops that have made reports against cops for breaking their oath. Two of which were excessive use of force. Do you know where those reports went? Straight to the trash because the “bad cop” knew more of the higher ups than the good cop that reported them. So what is the good cop supposed to do then? It takes way more than just one or two good cops reporting the bad ones. The people above them have to take the reports seriously. And I think that’s where the good cop credibility gets tossed out the window.
What are your honest thoughts on this? Id love for this to be an actual conversation and not a pissing argument of going back and forth.
I know a few cops too.
The problem with ‘good cop’ logic is that after a while it becomes a distinction without a difference because of what you just described. Eventually the system grinds them down and they either quit or accept it for what it is.
So maybe the more accurate sentiment would be “cops either quit with their principles intact or fall in line because the system doesn’t allow ‘good cops’ to stay that way” but it’s a little bit clunkier than the shorthand.
My father is a cop, hes also a fascist pig (not that those two things contradict).
I would say that’s pretty spot on actually.
That still means ACAB is true. They either quit (no longer a cop) or they become a bastard. “Good” cops that haven’t reached either of those outcomes yet are just Schrödinger’s Cop.
Only takes one good cop, or good person, to get rid of a bad cop.
We just don’t have that many.
Do you know where those reports went? Straight to the trash because the “bad cop” knew more of the higher ups than the good cop that reported them. So what is the good cop supposed to do then? It takes way more than just one or two good cops reporting the bad ones. The people above them have to take the reports seriously. And I think that’s where the good cop credibility gets tossed out the window.
It seems like you understand that your argument does more to hurt your point than help it. That story is exactly why people say ACAB because even the “good ones” eventually get broken down by the system (assuming they don’t get terminated or end up getting shot somehow during duty) and end up going along with it.
There’s no such thing as a good cop that contributes to maintaining the current status quo, and if you’re on the force, then that’s what you’re doing. Including very simply by being tools for people to point too and say “look, good cops exist” which is what you seem to be doing here.
And that’s where this conversation will end. Because you seem to be of the mindset that all cops are bad no matter what. Good day to you.
Yes, I believe that ACAB is true, I thought as much was obvious. Have a good day though! 💜
Do you think there is ever a situation where a Nazi is a good person?
I actually agree. We need more good cops like Chris Dorner or the problem will never be solved.
if the good cops were going to turn int he bad cops you would have heard about it by now.
Dude this happened in a big way in southern California like twelve years ago. Was all over the news. He got like five of them.
Removed by mod
Shut up fascist.
If it’s a crime against property? Hell yeah, you’re damn right I’m a fan. If it’s a crime against a person? There are other ways of preventing that than a police force, which were originally created to protect property.
There are other ways of preventing that than a police force, which were originally created to protect property.
Like what?
Well, to start with, violent crimes against people are statistically greater in places with higher wealth inequality and lower social safety nets, so addressing those issues is going to have a huge impact. Mental health services also make an impact. Secondly, police actually rarely directly prevent violent crime. Their main function in that respect is as an investigation service after the fact. That role would be better suited to an investigative body made up of other professionals, e.g. social workers, forensic scientists, doctors and sociologists. Thirdly, when intervention in response to ongoing violent crime is required, you could have a specialised rapid response service that doesn’t waste the billions to trillions of dollars that current, ineffective police forces cost the public purse yearly. Another option would be community prevention groups. This was part of the function the Black Panthers sought to take up alongside their other social programs, discouraging violent crime by acting as a neighbourhood watch.
Those are great measures, extremely important ones. Reduction is important. Police are incredibly over funded, not trained, and other tasks forces are important for mental health issues.
Secondly, police actually rarely directly prevent violent crime
Typically they’re more in the vein of preventing those who do it from re offending, yes. Of which it’s quite poor at with our capitalist prison system.
Thirdly, when intervention in response to ongoing violent crime is required, you could have a specialised rapid response service
That I also agree with. However, that is, in fact, cops.
It’s important to realize that while bringing everyone up will massively reduce violent crime, it will not eliminate it. You always have horrifying abusers, and people who take hoy in violence.
The current police suck ass at investigation. They don’t do shit. Putting together an effective force that has specialized teams for necessary services rather than a one size fits nothing is a much, MUCH better solution.
There’s no practical reason that investigative services would need to be provided by the police, and many good reasons it shouldn’t be. As well, would a rapid response service still be the police if their other functions have been stripped away? Would an independent investigative service or traffic enforcement still also be the police?
As well, focussing on the small minority that are convicted of heinous violent crimes is a distraction from the actual issues in my opinion. I like to believe we can come together as a society and brainstorm a better system.
Would an independent investigative service or traffic enforcement still also be the police?
Yes. The branch of law in charge of enforcement are and always will be cops no matter what form they take.
There’s no practical reason that investigative services would need to be provided by the police
Yes, there is. When investigating potentially dangerous suspects or areas, it’s important to have people trained to deal with that. Like actually trained, unlike present forces.
It’s a small portion that commit violent crimes, but violent crimes are not the only ones that create risk to others. You need to have investigatory forces for safety standards, both in the work place and on the roads, even in a socialist society.
Plus, a small number of violent criminals can disproportionately enforce fear upon a larger population if not dealt with properly by the law, so it is a necessary consideration.
As well, focussing on the small minority that are convicted of heinous violent crimes is a distraction from the actual issues in my opinion.
While it is often overstated by an incredible margin (see Chicago for a prime example) that doesn’t make violent crimes not actual issues. It’s important to see issues as proportionate as they are, but also realize that dealing with small issues is still important, especially as to keep them from blossoming into larger ones.
. I like to believe we can come together as a society and brainstorm a better system.
Our system is broken. Police as they are need to be abolished and burned to the ground as an institution, replaced with a force that isn’t built on a foundation of violence and protecting the rich.
our president is a felon, you show some respect.
Removed by mod
