be nice and fact-oriented in the comments please

    • blinfabian@feddit.nlEnglish
      5·
      8 hours ago

      i mean yeah, if you completely ignore everything kirk has ever said he seems like a pretty chill dude :)

  • spujb@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
    2261·
    1 day ago
    • fact 1: yes, malcolm x said some things that are easily categorized as antisemitism. these statements were not the primary thrust of his platform but are not above criticism.
    • fact 2: charlie kirk said many things that are easily categorized as transphobia, homophobia, racism, islamophobia. these words were his entire platform and he literally died with the hateful words on his lips.
    • 0laura@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      1071·
      11 hours ago

      and Charlie arguably did things you should also consider Antisemitism. he said abortions are worse than the Holocaust and greeted a German with “Deutschland über alles” which is illegal to say in Germany

      EDIT: apparently it’s not illegal to say, just removed from the anthem. still, noone says it because that’s nazi shit.

      • dandelion (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        711·
        1 day ago

        more importantly he peddled neo-Nazi conspiracies and claimed Jews control the media, education, non-profits, etc. and are pushing “cultural Marxism”

        this guy was pushing neo-Nazi and anti-Semitic conspiracy theories - it’s so much worse than comparing abortions to the Holocaust, lol

      • BakerBagel@midwest.socialEnglish
        17·
        1 day ago

        Deutschland über alles is literally the German national anthem though. I don’t see how it can be illegal to say

        • Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.orgEnglish
          221·
          1 day ago

          It’s from the banned part that the nazis used. Today’s national anthem starts at a later part of the same song. Why they didn’t go with something entirely new is beyond me but that’s a different question.

          • VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            5·
            22 hours ago

            Well, it was a popular song that was made into the national anthem of the Weimar Republic. The Nazis kept it, but added another one.

            The Deutschlandlied/Lied der Deutschen is mostly about uniting the disperate kingdoms that used to be where Germany was into one country. The use of the first two stanza was mainly discontinued because they mentioned borders that are way outside modern Germany, and are a bit unserious for an anthem (German women, German wine). They also aren’t banned, just not part of the national anthem.

            So it wasn’t written by the Nazis, and not necessarily their main anthem. Still, something new would have been nice. I like the Kinderhymne, I would also have taken Auferstanden aus Ruinen, it’s a lot more upbeat. But oh well, we’re stuck with it for now.

            • Natanox@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
              10·
              21 hours ago

              I think part of the reasoning also was the “Germany, Germany above everything, above everything in the world” is quite literally incompatible with our modern constitution and the desire for redemption in the time after the war. The idea of a nation state being above anyone was consciously rejected, which is why the very first words of our constitution literally reads:

              (1) Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.

              (2) The German people therefore acknowledge inviolable and inalienable human rights as the basis of every community, of peace and of justice in the world.

              Literally nothing can stand above human rights and human dignity, including Germany itself.

              • BakerBagel@midwest.socialEnglish
                15·
                20 hours ago

                But again, the German Anthem literally starts with “Deutschland, Deutschland über alles!” and you see the national team sing it every time they play. That’s why i can’t understand how it can be illegal to say in Germany when it is literally the opening stanza of their national anthem.

                • azolus@slrpnk.netEnglish
                  2·
                  9 hours ago

                  Das stimmt nicht. Es wird die erste Strophe NICHT gesungen.

                  You are wrong.

                • Natanox@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
                  6·
                  15 hours ago

                  How the fuck do you manage to be so confidently wrong when everyone tells you you’re wrong, and a single Google Search would prove that. The anthem starts with “Unity and right and freedom”.

                  This is the national anthem, translated:

                  Unity and right and freedom For the German fatherland! Let us all pursue this purpose Fraternally with heart and hand! Unity and right and freedom Are the pledge of happiness; |:Flourish in this blessing’s glory, Flourish, German fatherland!:|

                • Ephera@lemmy.mlEnglish
                  3·
                  17 hours ago

                  The German anthem starts with “Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit”.

        • azolus@slrpnk.netEnglish
          4·
          21 hours ago

          Die erste Strophe des Deutschlandliedes wurde während der Nazizeit zu Propagandazwecken instrumentalisiert, da sie insbesondere zwei Botschaften beinhaltet:

          • Treue dem Vaterland, übersteigerter Nationalismus, was später zu nationalem Märtyrertum verklärt wurde (siehe Langemarck-Mythos)
          • “Von der Maas bis an die Memel, von der Etsch bis an den Belt.” Das umfasst ein geografisch größeres Gebiet als das der damaligen Weimarer Republik (siehe Bild für einen Vergleich mit den heutigen Grenzen). Insbesondere inkludiert das auch Österreich. Das lies sich hervorragend in die expansionistische Lebensraum-Ideologie der Nazis einbetten, welche diese als Rechtfertigung für ihre Eroberungskriege nutzten.

          Heute wird aus genau diesen Gründen die erste Strophe nicht mehr verwendet. Die einzigen, die die erste Strophe des Deutschlandliedes weiterhin singen, sind Neonazis wie die Mitglieder der Partei die Heimat (ehemals NPD).

          Hope that clears up the confusion.

    • dandelion (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      431·
      1 day ago

      I can’t believe you left out that Charlie Kirk is was famously anti-Semitic (like, repeats neo-Nazi conspiracy theories levels of anti-Semitic) :

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk#American_Jews_and_antisemitism

      Kirk had been accused of antisemitism by multiple people and organizations;[187][188][189] The Anti-Defamation League accused Kirk of creating a “vast platform for extremists and far-right conspiracy theorists”.[187] In October 2023, he said on The Charlie Kirk Show that “Jewish donors have been the Number 1 funding mechanism of radical, open border, neoliberal, quasi‑Marxist policies … This is a beast created by secular Jews, and now it’s coming for Jews”. He also suggested that these Jews control “not just the colleges; it’s the nonprofits, it’s the movies, it’s Hollywood, it’s all of it”. Soon after, he said that “Jews have been some of the largest funders of cultural Marxist ideas and supporters of those ideas over the last 30 or 40 years.”[190] Kirk called on American Jews to stop “subsidizing your own demise by supporting institutions that breed Anti-Semites and endorse genocidal killers”.[187]

      In November 2023, Kirk said that “Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them”.[188] He went on to claim “the philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors”, but said he was glad that some donors were reconsidering.[191] In 2025, Kirk said that “No non-Jewish person my age has a longer or clearer record of support for Israel, sympathy with the Jewish people, or opposition to antisemitism than I do”.[187] In July 2025, Kirk warned his followers against hatred of Jews, calling it “evil” and “demonic”.[192] Some Jewish public figures have defended Kirk against accusations of antisemitism, citing his pro-Israel stance. Kirk was funded by some Jewish donors, including Bernie Marcus.[193]

  • BreadOven@lemmy.worldEnglish
    341·
    23 hours ago

    Someone I was subscribed to on YT posted a video about Kirk and MLK Jr. Saying they both died for “just wanting to talk”. Immediately reported it and unsubscribed. How can people be so stupid?

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
      7·
      20 hours ago

      I literally don’t know how to describe how stupid and broken Pavlou’s politics is. Only reason I learned about his existence is some other piece of shit streamer is a serial doxxer and made him one of his victims.